Are caravan parks pricing themselves out of the market?
Phil C said
11:17 AM Oct 1, 2014
I recently ran into a mate from a caravan park we were in for 3 months while I was recovering from an operation. When we were there the fees were reasonable and water, electricity etc were part of the deal.
Since then, the council has put electricity meters on all the permanent sites, raised the rates and made it difficult for permanents to stay.
Evidently there is a new park being built on the other side of town and the rumor is that there will be no permanents and of course the fees will be higher to coincide with the jumping pillow and swimming pool.
We are very lucky as we live on our daughter's and hubbies property free of charge, get our water from the sky as our electricity from the sun and an extension lead.
With the recent hubbub from Brighton caravan park, in Adelaide, and the expulsion of their permanents I wonder if these places are going to survive the baby boomers who are now living in caravans, and may be looking for a longer term stay.
We stayed in a CP not so long ago for $40 a night, absolute rip off for some electricity, water and a shower. They didnt even have a dump point!!! When I mentioned this to the owner, he just looked at me and said "take it or leave it". Yipes!!!! I showed him my DVA gold card and he said he didnt do discounts for anyone.
I think free camps will be putting a lot of these CPs to sleep, if they improve their rates and services for GNs (pension card holders) they may get more business. This should bring on some interesting discussion.
Safe travels and be well.
Legendts said
11:43 AM Oct 1, 2014
Hear hear Phil.
moamajohn said
12:31 PM Oct 1, 2014
My wife and and I arrived in Moama for the weekend in 1974 ,we then left our van their and in the next 36 years we had 4 vans and 2 mobile homes on the same site.1974 was $350 pr anm./2010 $6100 plus power.The final straw was they then said no fires ! 90% of the old crew left and a few of us then bought house. Sad really but it seems to be the future.Pay up or shut up !John
Onedodger said
02:21 PM Oct 1, 2014
For those who do not want jumping castles, pools,camp kitchens, swings, playgrounds etc then they are pricing themselves out .
For those that have children and want a holiday where the kids can play in relative safety then no.
I would like to see a tariff that reflects the actual usage that one wants.
EG. For those that need all the above $30 per night plus a little extra for children.
For grey nomads who only want power, water, flat site and a clean amenities $20 per night and perhaps a reduction for singles.
Just my thoughts.
aussie_paul said
02:30 PM Oct 1, 2014
Onedodger wrote:
For those who do not want jumping castles, pools,camp kitchens, swings, playgrounds etc then they are pricing themselves out . For those that have children and want a holiday where the kids can play in relative safety then no. I would like to see a tariff that reflects the actual usage that one wants. EG. For those that need all the above $30 per night plus a little extra for children. For grey nomads who only want power, water, flat site and a clean amenities $20 per night and perhaps a reduction for singles.
Just my thoughts.
Makes a lot more sense, "user pays for what they use".
Aussie Paul.
exa41 said
02:46 PM Oct 1, 2014
I don`t want the add on`s just piece and quiet , a bit of power and water and a shower , unfortunately the majority of CP`s cant supply so we free camp.
KFT said
02:52 PM Oct 1, 2014
aussie_paul wrote:
Onedodger wrote:
For those who do not want jumping castles, pools,camp kitchens, swings, playgrounds etc then they are pricing themselves out . For those that have children and want a holiday where the kids can play in relative safety then no. I would like to see a tariff that reflects the actual usage that one wants. EG. For those that need all the above $30 per night plus a little extra for children. For grey nomads who only want power, water, flat site and a clean amenities $20 per night and perhaps a reduction for singles.
Just my thoughts.
Makes a lot more sense, "user pays for what they use".
Aussie Paul.
Good post from both.
Our governments are heading towards "user pays" for lots of services so why not CP's?
Oh I forgot, they want to use an outdated business model that caters for what they want to supply NOT what the potential customers are looking for.
hence the need to ban free/bush camping so customers can be forced into their parks by council rangers.
OR am I way off the mark here?
frank
Pedro_The_Swift said
03:47 PM Oct 1, 2014
Unfortunately the more touristy the CP the greater risk of paying "whatever the market will bear"
I am having to stay at Toowoomba showground for a week very soon,, $25 a night powered or not.
imagine a single coming in there with a car and a tent,,,
Phil C said
05:07 PM Oct 1, 2014
Wow, great responses folks. We are off on a wandering in a few weeks to Eyre Peninsular (there are lots of big rocks waiting for us to see), as we like to support local business and have a decent shower, empty the loo etc, we have booked a few CPs on the way.
Hows this one, 40KMs west of Port augusta on the Eyre Highway (middle of nowhere) normal tariff is $30 a night, I picked up a special for $22 a night.... go figure, profit is not a dirty word, greed however is...
The most expensive CP is $35 a night at Quorn for goodness sake! Then again its the Flinder's Ranges.
TTFN
I hope you are all well.
What, me worry?
Alfred E Newman with the goofy ears
copper1 said
07:44 PM Oct 1, 2014
Whilst FREE camping at Jugiong this week spoke to a couple who just come from Merimbula and the van park that they were going to stay at wanted $70 p/n as it is school holidays. This is just a simple rip off for GN's but obviously the family's that stay at these places during this time it would be a cheap nights accommodation with 2 + kids. But for us whilst I can I will free camp as much as possible and use a van park (infrequently) just to charge things up but in saying that between solar and a genie I don't really have to.
kesa32 said
08:33 PM Oct 1, 2014
I just got a quote for the Xmas holidays at queenscliffe $61 per night ( van 2 people) plus $14 per head for extras , and I'm probably going to take as everywhere along the coast appears booked out ! It's supply and demand hey :)
Dougwe said
06:01 AM Oct 2, 2014
How,
The biggest problem I see IMO with " User Pays" is while we the GN don't need all the bells and whistles and hope to pay less for it, we are taking the same site a family of 4 would that do want bells and whistles and willing to pay for it. I am quite sure I know who will get the site.
Me, I would be happy to go down the back out the way with just a bit of power and some sort of access to water. I also have my own power so could cope without theirs anyway. I only look at a CVP for a little more security if off and about etc. I still don't like the idea of leaving my van on it's own in a free camp or similar. I do have a couple of favourite places that don't have free/alternative camps close by so have to CVP it in that case but are reasonable cost especially one for a solo.
I don't mind paying up to $25 a night but over that for what I want I believe is "out of the ball park" or should that be CVP?
My opinion only of course.
jules47 said
08:55 AM Oct 2, 2014
This is a subject that comes up often at happy hours I have found. January this year we left Victoria and decided to travel along the coast back to Brisbane, we knew there weren't a lot of free camps, but we wanted to do it.
Went to Old Adaminaby (in the Snowy region) - they have converted their power boxes to meters, $25 flat cost, all year round, and your power is metered - they plug you in, lock the box and write the meter reading down, you get a copy of this. We used everything electric that night, till quite late, and guess what - we used 70 cents worth of power!!!!!!!
The owner said her power bill had been cut by almost half since installing the meters. People used to go out, leave air conditioners on, heaters, etc. Now they have to pay themselves, they turn things off!!! One regular who had been coming for years, actually apologised to her for being unthinking in the past.
Another park, further up the coast, wanted $64 for a night- I said no thanks, and she said -l pay that "It is the high season and school holidays, you wil pay tht everywhere " - I said no thanks again, went to walk out, and she called me back - said "I suppose as it is close to the end of the season, I could let you have a site for our regular price of $36". We stayed - there were at least 15 sites around us empty - at $36 she maybe could have had them in use.
Wombat 280 said
12:18 PM Oct 2, 2014
In my travels I see more and more van parks going down the cabin route with very expensive cabins ( $190 P/N for two in a one room cabin)take the prime view sites. The teltale is when they start charging $48.00 for a powered site with no slab low season . Also noted that the carbon charges that sent fees through the roof have not come down now the tax has gone .
Pondy said
12:56 PM Oct 2, 2014
We have found some parks to be expensive and as we travel with a dog some parks are now charging for the dog which we will not pay. When my dog can use the facilities I will then think about paying for him. We are responsible pet owners keep him on a lead, clean up after him and he is quite.
sandsmere said
03:09 PM Oct 2, 2014
You have my sympathy Pondy.
You get charged for all the dog owners that don't do the right thing.
Wombat 280 said
11:55 PM Oct 2, 2014
I find people who travel with dogs are possibly the most responsible of the travelers. When someone travels with a dog (pets) it shows they care enough to take their best friend with them. Many parks who have shunned pets in the past have had to rethink their position when they find that in off peak times their park is empty while the pet friendly ones are full to the seams . Some parks do charge a deposit for the dog which they fully refund when you leave provided your dog hasn't caused any problems . If they charged a daily fee then I would avoid those and let everyone know via all means possible .
In some areas I have been I would like to see some parents have to pay a child control fee never mind the dogs
grahamg said
11:52 AM Oct 3, 2014
The bigger parks with all the extras raise the cost of the stay, then the other parks without these facilities think if the big fancy parks are charging $50 /per then I can charge $45 /night even without the fancy stuff when I used to charge only $20.
We used to pay $20 , now we have a choice pay the big money and get all the features and comfort or pay almost as much and get ripped off to save a few dollars.
-- Edited by grahamg on Friday 3rd of October 2014 11:53:16 AM
-- Edited by grahamg on Friday 3rd of October 2014 11:54:45 AM
deverall11 said
01:48 PM Oct 3, 2014
What I don't get is the price gouging during 'peak' periods. Some parks charge the same all year around. Some double their fees during holidays. I don't get anymore for the extra money. Can you imagine if you went to a restaurant during the off-peak season and paid a nominal $30 per head for your meal. Go to the same place during peak season or public holidays or Sundays and pay $60 per head. How many people would walk through the door?
Larry
Golddetectornomad said
03:17 PM Oct 3, 2014
The question should perhaps really be.... 'are Grey Nomads pricing themselves out of the Caravan Park market"?.......so who will last the longest in this growing stalemate?.....we are regarded as the travelling' lepers'..by all who worship the almighty Dollar.....what common ground can hope to be forged in the future?....none I suggest.....their input costs of power and water, staff and amenity upkeep will no doubt continue to spiral beyond their control...apart from attempting to recover from the 'user pays'..... We don't/ can't/ want, to pay for facilities we don't require....on that all travelling Nomads generally agree.....at our stages of life we have invariably been screwed by the best over the years and we don't feel inclined to be screwed further whilst we have some control or say over it....so what are our alternatives?.....
The answer cannot lay in Caravan Parks changing their attitudes/business practices/ or even curtailing their profit expectations based on their total capital investment....the value of their land/Investment goes up/appreciates..their Accountants are guiding their business decisions and advising how much they should charge to recoup an adequate profit based on their increased values...we are not interested in paying for their increased profit expectations, and conversely our rigs depreciate not appreciate...and in the current environment for self funded's or Pension receipients..we have little hope of increased incomes to match their increased profit expectations......
I suggest therefore we have no common ground, apart from our wish to have a tiny part of their ground at a reasonable price....we do not want charity or particulary free sites..we will pay a reasonable amount based on our reasonable needs.....
Until some entrepreneurial group recognizes what our true needs/wants are, or are even worth servicing, I suggest the gap will only widen...and they can no doubt last longer than we can as they also have vested interests working for them to curtail our alternatives round Australia......
Our power to change lies in our large voting demographic group, however it needs to be marshalled and effectively directed, country town business's to recognize our true value to them as an economic group/stimulus, and our collective ability to appeal to those that can match our alternative needs that Caravan Parks will/can never fulfil....provision to be made for rezoning land on the outskirts of city's and Townships to allow/provide for secure parking/camping for essentially self contained rigs at a reasonable fee based on""" basic""" services actually provided... Result: less reliance on essential Truck Parking Bays....less frustration to Local Gov't Municipalities as to what to do with our growing movement...aka 'Travelling Grey Nomads"..many would like us to simply disappear...but how does an ever increasing group simply disappear?....it wont and it requires 'servicing' . and Caravan Parks can continue their own "Cabin Type" agenda's or whatever...and who among us really cares what their Agenda's are ,if it in no way relates to our needs......
To answer the question raised...are Caravan Parks pricing themselves out of the market....NO.....our Demographic Group are not their market......and I suggest never will be we must explore and achieve alternatives to Caravan Parks as they exist at the moment............Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 3rd of October 2014 03:23:32 PM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 3rd of October 2014 03:31:19 PM
Phil C said
12:09 PM Oct 4, 2014
Golddetectornomad wrote:
The question should perhaps really be.... 'are Grey Nomads pricing themselves out of the Caravan Park market"?.......so who will last the longest in this growing stalemate?.....we are regarded as the travelling' lepers'..by all who worship the almighty Dollar.....what common ground can hope to be forged in the future?....none I suggest.....their input costs of power and water, staff and amenity upkeep will no doubt continue to spiral beyond their control...apart from attempting to recover from the 'user pays'..... We don't/ can't/ want, to pay for facilities we don't require....on that all travelling Nomads generally agree.....at our stages of life we have invariably been screwed by the best over the years and we don't feel inclined to be screwed further whilst we have some control or say over it....so what are our alternatives?.....
The answer cannot lay in Caravan Parks changing their attitudes/business practices/ or even curtailing their profit expectations based on their total capital investment....the value of their land/Investment goes up/appreciates..their Accountants are guiding their business decisions and advising how much they should charge to recoup an adequate profit based on their increased values...we are not interested in paying for their increased profit expectations, and conversely our rigs depreciate not appreciate...and in the current environment for self funded's or Pension receipients..we have little hope of increased incomes to match their increased profit expectations......
I suggest therefore we have no common ground, apart from our wish to have a tiny part of their ground at a reasonable price....we do not want charity or particulary free sites..we will pay a reasonable amount based on our reasonable needs.....
Until some entrepreneurial group recognizes what our true needs/wants are, or are even worth servicing, I suggest the gap will only widen...and they can no doubt last longer than we can as they also have vested interests working for them to curtail our alternatives round Australia......
Our power to change lies in our large voting demographic group, however it needs to be marshalled and effectively directed, country town business's to recognize our true value to them as an economic group/stimulus, and our collective ability to appeal to those that can match our alternative needs that Caravan Parks will/can never fulfil....provision to be made for rezoning land on the outskirts of city's and Townships to allow/provide for secure parking/camping for essentially self contained rigs at a reasonable fee based on""" basic""" services actually provided... Result: less reliance on essential Truck Parking Bays....less frustration to Local Gov't Municipalities as to what to do with our growing movement...aka 'Travelling Grey Nomads"..many would like us to simply disappear...but how does an ever increasing group simply disappear?....it wont and it requires 'servicing' . and Caravan Parks can continue their own "Cabin Type" agenda's or whatever...and who among us really cares what their Agenda's are ,if it in no way relates to our needs......
To answer the question raised...are Caravan Parks pricing themselves out of the market....NO.....our Demographic Group are not their market......and I suggest never will be we must explore and achieve alternatives to Caravan Parks as they exist at the moment............Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 3rd of October 2014 03:23:32 PM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 3rd of October 2014 03:31:19 PM
Wow, sometimes the answer is there hidden in plain view. After reading your post I have to agree. When bureaucratic attitudes change toward GNs and boomers we may get a better deal. I wonder if a baby boomer lobby would be the go, with interest in GNs and their plight (although I think the only issue is someplace safe to park the van at night).
You raise some valid points that I have yet to ponder. I guess the overriding factor here is, who wants to come out of retirement and travel to lobby these bweebs in Canberra?
Safe travels
rockylizard said
12:33 PM Oct 4, 2014
Gday...
Larry's quite right in many ways. However, I doubt a "GN Party/lobby group" would eventuate. We are all too diverse in our attitudes, experiences, economic circumstances, energy levels and perhaps even political persuasions.
However, perhaps the most important "vote" we could cast would be to "vote with our feet/pocket" - don't use CPs that charge more than $20-$25/night. This may mean not being right on top of that tourist attraction in that major town. It also does not mean "only free camping" - it means being thoughtfully selective in the CPs/camp spots you sleep in.
Ultimately, as cash flow beings to slow, CPs may begin to see the need to cater for "the travelling public" rather than just the "holidaying public".
There is no easy solution, and perhaps we, the "travelling GNs", are not sufficiently cohesive as a group to even "vote with our feet" collectively to make enough difference.
Cheers - John
[edit: if only Rocky could spell properly)
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 4th of October 2014 12:36:57 PM
Onedodger said
11:18 AM Oct 5, 2014
If you are genuinely wanting to do something about this dilemma then have a look at this lobby group and join up to add your few dollars to the cause.
This beats whining about the situation. Plus every little bit helps.
http://www.cmca.net.au/about-us/motouring
Phil C said
11:55 AM Oct 5, 2014
Onedodger wrote:
If you are genuinely wanting to do something about this dilemma then have a look at this lobby group and join up to add your few dollars to the cause.
This beats whining about the situation. Plus every little bit helps.
http://www.cmca.net.au/about-us/motouring
Fair comment Onedodger, I guess Im like most of us.. Just couldnt be stuffed getting into a stressful argument with bureaucracy. The path of least resistance is to not use expensive CPs and stay at free camps when possible.
BTW I have joined the cmca group, thanks mate.
Safe travels
keiron said
01:46 PM Oct 5, 2014
I suspect that John is "on the money" when he said......."and perhaps we, the "traveling GNs", are not sufficiently cohesive as a group to even "vote with our feet" collectively to make enough difference".
I have just finished a 3 week trip, staying in CP's all the way, just as I did during a 12 day trip in March this year. And a 3 week trip in October last year.
All of the time spent in country NSW.
I only stayed, at most, 2 nights in any one CP, mostly using for "over-nighters".
I am in my late 60's, and probably look like a " an old Grey Nomad"?
I have / did not meet or talk to anyone, during any of these trips, who identified as a GN. In fact, several of the persons I did speak to do live on the road, constantly traveling, and when I did ask if the were GN's, I was met a blank look, and asked "what is that".
Yes, I suspect that John is most likely 80-90% correct. When any of us do "vote with our feet", we are seen as just another "old" guy who is too tight to pay his way. The CP owner most likely does not associate us with any collective group at all.
The truth is probably closer to...."we are only a force to be reckoned with,,,, in our own minds...".
If we were visibly part of a larger "formidable" group, who loudly trumpeted our cause and expectations, then maybe, just maybe, we might at ;east get a hearing.
Until then...........
Cheers, KB
marinepics said
05:23 PM Oct 5, 2014
Are c/van partks pricing themnselves out of the market...absolutely !!
Australian prices for hospitality services are beyond a joke !! We are so far behind the rest of the world in so many respects, it's frighteneing !!
But some of us who don't travel overseas a great deal have nothing to compare with...
A lot say to themselves "I want to see australia first"...and fair enough...
but that's not to say we shouldn't be competitive with other places equally as beautiful..
I recently spent a month in Thailand and Malaysia...with time at a resort with 3very large resort style swimming pools, an airconditioned double room with everything that opens and shuts, a breakfast buffet (for 2) thrown in each morning for good measure...wifi, and some very beautiful "guest relations officers" attentive to our every need....
and all this for $50 per night...and that's for both of us...(the room price)
If that doesn't convince us that caravan park are charging way too much for 20 square metres of grass, then I'm not sure what will !
But the unfortunate truth is that caravan parks do not exist to provide a fair and sensible price to GNs, but to maximise profits for their owners....and while they continue to attract paying customers, they don't need to be concerned....I simply vote with my feet.
Lucky for them though...even most of us GNs do feel the need a park with facilities every now and again..
What really annoys the hell out of me though, is not so much the caravan park prices, as there are still a few sensible ones around if you look,
but the councils that are continually shutting down areas that have traditionally been available for us to use as overnighters, and even allocating staff to police these areas at night, and threaten those who attempt to stay with daunting fines.
I don't know how they can legally do this kind of policing, because at last count, I don't recall there ever being any curfews being enacted in this country !
Whoever it is that is doing the work of encouraging the RV Friendly Towns concept, really deserves our sincere gratitude.
Changing the attitude of local councils is the obvious way to go, but it must be a difficult and time consuming process, with little reward.
Golddetectornomad said
06:13 PM Oct 5, 2014
Australian Caravan Parks have' larger fish to fry' and alternative Agendas to providing reasonable price sites to travelling Grey Nomads who require their services 'every now and again'....I seriously doubt as a Group we even figure in the Business Strategies of the larger/more prominent Parks throughout Australia........therefor we are probably deluding ourselves further by 'voting with our feet'...in the expectation they will see the errors of their ways.....we are not their market....havn't been for quite a while.....and without some quantum shift in their profit expectations, won't be their market in the future either...
When I was engaged to sell a certain Caravan Park in Coastal S.A. the new owners could not divest themselves quick enough of the large number of loyal 'permanents' that had occupied sites for many years....cabins, potential re-subdivision, maximising profits was the only consideration.....the 'permanents' only represented potential problems to them, as they could not hope to pay ever increasing site fees.....sites that could earn far more as holiday cabins....and I suggest as a Travelling Group we represent nothing to them, unless we are prepared to pay what they want for all their facilities they provide, rather than what we require, and pay what we consider reasonable....
The bizarre 'Catch 22' is the fact that their vested interests would continue to restrict or ban our Group alternatives around Australia.....I'm currently in Bendigo and attend the Sunday markets at the Prince of Wales Showgrounds....I now see signs that camping has been forbidden at the Showgrounds from 1st May 2014....previously I used to see many Caravans using their reasonable services for a reasonable fee <$20?>...I don't know the politics behind this decision however it's common to many City's and Townships usually due to vested interests on Council attempting to force our Travelling Demographic Group into some sort of submission....stay in Caravan Parks and pay their fees or stay at home........the fact we are increasing yearly in numbers means at some stage "Services suitable to our needs' will have to be made available for essentially self contained small and larger rigs.....
..I think Onedodger made an excellent recommendation as to where we can marshall our efforts/support...to highlight our reasonable needs and wants.....Hoo Roo
Bevandy2 said
11:25 PM Oct 5, 2014
It's a fact, the caravan parks are trying hard to protect their business, but so far have not realised that they need to tier their prices for what patrons want. (other than powered or unpowered sites)
The CMCA have their RV friendly town program, the Australian Caravan Club also lobbies councils to provide budget camping, so councils have to balance their policies to satisfy ratepayers (caravan parks) as well as try to attract our business to the town. A bit tricky for them.
We can all do our bit, call into the local council office and ask to speak to their Tourism person, and state your case, they may not do anything, but if we don't tell 'em they won't know will they? Be nice about it because an agro attitude just gets dismissed out of hand.
We recently visited a QLD town that did not allow budget camping on the showgrounds, due to complaints from the caravan parks, and the grotty little caravan park we then stayed in charged $35. A bit of gouging, we felt, so visited the council office, gave them one of our ACC folders with info on what they need to do if they want us to stay and spend money in the town, no response, but at least we gave them the message.
As One Dodger has said, we can do something about it, I am with the ACC, he is with the CMCA, our clubs are working on your behalf, but you can act individually as well if you don't want to join a club.
Cheers all,
Bevan
KeenTravellers said
12:37 AM Oct 6, 2014
Some great Ideas listed above about Caravan Parks Pricing. Its true - really all GNs operate independantly when we each travel. So maybe a lobby group is not the way to go. However as a group - obviously we would have more pull or weight - even if small - but it could be grown in time.
By that I mean we have a site here - why not use it to our full advantage. May I suggest that we should start a section or topic on this site purely for listing by state - any reasonable CP that does charge a reasonable rate.
We could then - as individuals submit - then use and promote to Fellow GNs. Also we could inform the CP "that we will have them listed on this GNs Site" for others visiting the area to use.
The other thing is marketing. As Individuals do we promote this site. We all should. Maybe a drive for each of us to gain x number of new members. I dont know how many times I have come accross other GNs - who arent registered on here - or know of us at all - but still travel as we do. The more we have registered on here the better for all of us really.
So as a suggestion Im willing to donate money to put towards a promotion for new members We could then use this for members to promote by say having some extra stickers to hand out" may encourage them to join and "stick one on" And yes as members in here - there is nothing to stop us - also being members of the ACC & CMCA as well.
It maybe only small at first - but as we the GNs use this site to locate CPs to use - recommended by this site over time by fellow GNs CPs/ Councils / Information Centres would gradually come to see we are as "group" and maybe have some more "pull" with their rates. and that there is a benefit in trying to accomodate more GNs as the list grows to promote their town.
The benefits I see would be 1 GNs could list the - location - site fees and short note about the location which would benefit other members 2 GNs would be seen as a more cohesive group etc. 3 Expensive sites would NOT be listed so would be as thou "we walked with our feet" 4 Any future loby group or discussion would have some basic facts about member numbers where we go and what we want.
Even today at our GN gathering for lunch in Brisbane South - I learned of another site which I will try in future. There must be thousands of them from all over the country. Even in my own state Im sure interstate travellers to here know more than I do.
The thing we all forget on here is that "We ARE all - the eyes and ears of sites - around Australia".. so why not use this to our advantage. After all - this site is not just for having a say...or posting a question/answer ?is it"???
Im sure the information would grow and could be accessed by the other groups mentioned above as well to be used. Im sure Cindy or someone would have no problem in policing what is listed and stick to a format. Just a thought. Cheers KT
-- Edited by KeenTravellers on Monday 6th of October 2014 12:38:14 AM
-- Edited by KeenTravellers on Monday 6th of October 2014 12:42:22 AM
I recently ran into a mate from a caravan park we were in for 3 months while I was recovering from an operation. When we were there the fees were reasonable and water, electricity etc were part of the deal.
Since then, the council has put electricity meters on all the permanent sites, raised the rates and made it difficult for permanents to stay.
Evidently there is a new park being built on the other side of town and the rumor is that there will be no permanents and of course the fees will be higher to coincide with the jumping pillow and swimming pool.
We are very lucky as we live on our daughter's and hubbies property free of charge, get our water from the sky as our electricity from the sun and an extension lead.
With the recent hubbub from Brighton caravan park, in Adelaide, and the expulsion of their permanents I wonder if these places are going to survive the baby boomers who are now living in caravans, and may be looking for a longer term stay.
We stayed in a CP not so long ago for $40 a night, absolute rip off for some electricity, water and a shower. They didnt even have a dump point!!! When I mentioned this to the owner, he just looked at me and said "take it or leave it". Yipes!!!! I showed him my DVA gold card and he said he didnt do discounts for anyone.
I think free camps will be putting a lot of these CPs to sleep, if they improve their rates and services for GNs (pension card holders) they may get more business. This should bring on some interesting discussion.
Safe travels and be well.
For those that have children and want a holiday where the kids can play in relative safety then no.
I would like to see a tariff that reflects the actual usage that one wants.
EG. For those that need all the above $30 per night plus a little extra for children.
For grey nomads who only want power, water, flat site and a clean amenities $20 per night and perhaps a reduction for singles.
Just my thoughts.
Makes a lot more sense, "user pays for what they use".
Aussie Paul.
I don`t want the add on`s just piece and quiet , a bit of power and water and a shower , unfortunately the majority of CP`s cant supply so we free camp.
Good post from both.
Our governments are heading towards "user pays" for lots of services so why not CP's?
Oh I forgot, they want to use an outdated business model that caters for what they want to supply NOT what the potential customers are looking for.
hence the need to ban free/bush camping so customers can be forced into their parks by council rangers.
OR am I way off the mark here?
frank
Unfortunately the more touristy the CP the greater risk of paying "whatever the market will bear"
I am having to stay at Toowoomba showground for a week very soon,,
$25 a night powered or not.
imagine a single coming in there with a car and a tent,,,
Hows this one, 40KMs west of Port augusta on the Eyre Highway (middle of nowhere) normal tariff is $30 a night, I picked up a special for $22 a night.... go figure, profit is not a dirty word, greed however is...
The most expensive CP is $35 a night at Quorn for goodness sake! Then again its the Flinder's Ranges.
TTFN
I hope you are all well.
What, me worry?
Alfred E Newman with the goofy ears
Whilst FREE camping at Jugiong this week spoke to a couple who just come from Merimbula and the van park that they were going to stay at wanted $70 p/n as it is school holidays. This is just a simple rip off for GN's but obviously the family's that stay at these places during this time it would be a cheap nights accommodation with 2 + kids. But for us whilst I can I will free camp as much as possible and use a van park (infrequently) just to charge things up but in saying that between solar and a genie I don't really have to.
How,
The biggest problem I see IMO with " User Pays" is while we the GN don't need all the bells and whistles and hope to pay less for it, we are taking the same site a family of 4 would that do want bells and whistles and willing to pay for it. I am quite sure I know who will get the site.
Me, I would be happy to go down the back out the way with just a bit of power and some sort of access to water. I also have my own power so could cope without theirs anyway. I only look at a CVP for a little more security if off and about etc. I still don't like the idea of leaving my van on it's own in a free camp or similar. I do have a couple of favourite places that don't have free/alternative camps close by so have to CVP it in that case but are reasonable cost especially one for a solo.
I don't mind paying up to $25 a night but over that for what I want I believe is "out of the ball park" or should that be CVP?
My opinion only of course.
This is a subject that comes up often at happy hours I have found. January this year we left Victoria and decided to travel along the coast back to Brisbane, we knew there weren't a lot of free camps, but we wanted to do it.
Went to Old Adaminaby (in the Snowy region) - they have converted their power boxes to meters, $25 flat cost, all year round, and your power is metered - they plug you in, lock the box and write the meter reading down, you get a copy of this. We used everything electric that night, till quite late, and guess what - we used 70 cents worth of power!!!!!!!
The owner said her power bill had been cut by almost half since installing the meters. People used to go out, leave air conditioners on, heaters, etc. Now they have to pay themselves, they turn things off!!! One regular who had been coming for years, actually apologised to her for being unthinking in the past.
Another park, further up the coast, wanted $64 for a night- I said no thanks, and she said -l pay that "It is the high season and school holidays, you wil pay tht everywhere " - I said no thanks again, went to walk out, and she called me back - said "I suppose as it is close to the end of the season, I could let you have a site for our regular price of $36". We stayed - there were at least 15 sites around us empty - at $36 she maybe could have had them in use.
You have my sympathy Pondy.
You get charged for all the dog owners that don't do the right thing.
In some areas I have been I would like to see some parents have to pay a child control fee never mind the dogs
The bigger parks with all the extras raise the cost of the stay, then the other parks without these facilities think if the big fancy parks are charging $50 /per then I can charge $45 /night even without the fancy stuff when I used to charge only $20.
We used to pay $20 , now we have a choice pay the big money and get all the features and comfort or pay almost as much and get ripped off to save a few dollars.
-- Edited by grahamg on Friday 3rd of October 2014 11:53:16 AM
-- Edited by grahamg on Friday 3rd of October 2014 11:54:45 AM
Larry
The question should perhaps really be.... 'are Grey Nomads pricing themselves out of the Caravan Park market"?.......so who will last the longest in this growing stalemate?.....we are regarded as the travelling' lepers'..by all who worship the almighty Dollar.....what common ground can hope to be forged in the future?....none I suggest.....their input costs of power and water, staff and amenity upkeep will no doubt continue to spiral beyond their control...apart from attempting to recover from the 'user pays'.....
We don't/ can't/ want, to pay for facilities we don't require....on that all travelling Nomads generally agree.....at our stages of life we have invariably been screwed by the best over the years and we don't feel inclined to be screwed further whilst we have some control or say over it....so what are our alternatives?.....
The answer cannot lay in Caravan Parks changing their attitudes/business practices/ or even curtailing their profit expectations based on their total capital investment....the value of their land/Investment goes up/appreciates..their Accountants are guiding their business decisions and advising how much they should charge to recoup an adequate profit based on their increased values...we are not interested in paying for their increased profit expectations, and conversely our rigs depreciate not appreciate...and in the current environment for self funded's or Pension receipients..we have little hope of increased incomes to match their increased profit expectations......
I suggest therefore we have no common ground, apart from our wish to have a tiny part of their ground at a reasonable price....we do not want charity or particulary free sites..we will pay a reasonable amount based on our reasonable needs.....
Until some entrepreneurial group recognizes what our true needs/wants are, or are even worth servicing, I suggest the gap will only widen...and they can no doubt last longer than we can as they also have vested interests working for them to curtail our alternatives round Australia......
Our power to change lies in our large voting demographic group, however it needs to be marshalled and effectively directed, country town business's to recognize our true value to them as an economic group/stimulus, and our collective ability to appeal to those that can match our alternative needs that Caravan Parks will/can never fulfil....provision to be made for rezoning land on the outskirts of city's and Townships to allow/provide for secure parking/camping for essentially self contained rigs at a reasonable fee based on""" basic""" services actually provided...
Result: less reliance on essential Truck Parking Bays....less frustration to Local Gov't Municipalities as to what to do with our growing movement...aka 'Travelling Grey Nomads"..many would like us to simply disappear...but how does an ever increasing group simply disappear?....it wont and it requires 'servicing' . and Caravan Parks can continue their own "Cabin Type" agenda's or whatever...and who among us really cares what their Agenda's are ,if it in no way relates to our needs......
To answer the question raised...are Caravan Parks pricing themselves out of the market....NO.....our Demographic Group are not their market......and I suggest never will be we must explore and achieve alternatives to Caravan Parks as they exist at the moment............Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 3rd of October 2014 03:23:32 PM
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Friday 3rd of October 2014 03:31:19 PM
Wow, sometimes the answer is there hidden in plain view. After reading your post I have to agree. When bureaucratic attitudes change toward GNs and boomers we may get a better deal. I wonder if a baby boomer lobby would be the go, with interest in GNs and their plight (although I think the only issue is someplace safe to park the van at night).
You raise some valid points that I have yet to ponder. I guess the overriding factor here is, who wants to come out of retirement and travel to lobby these bweebs in Canberra?
Safe travels
Gday...
Larry's quite right in many ways. However, I doubt a "GN Party/lobby group" would eventuate. We are all too diverse in our attitudes, experiences, economic circumstances, energy levels and perhaps even political persuasions.
However, perhaps the most important "vote" we could cast would be to "vote with our feet/pocket" - don't use CPs that charge more than $20-$25/night. This may mean not being right on top of that tourist attraction in that major town. It also does not mean "only free camping" - it means being thoughtfully selective in the CPs/camp spots you sleep in.
Ultimately, as cash flow beings to slow, CPs may begin to see the need to cater for "the travelling public" rather than just the "holidaying public".
There is no easy solution, and perhaps we, the "travelling GNs", are not sufficiently cohesive as a group to even "vote with our feet" collectively to make enough difference.
Cheers - John
[edit: if only Rocky could spell properly
)
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 4th of October 2014 12:36:57 PM
If you are genuinely wanting to do something about this dilemma then have a look at this lobby group and join up to add your few dollars to the cause.
This beats whining about the situation. Plus every little bit helps.
http://www.cmca.net.au/about-us/motouring
Fair comment Onedodger, I guess Im like most of us.. Just couldnt be stuffed getting into a stressful argument with bureaucracy. The path of least resistance is to not use expensive CPs and stay at free camps when possible.
BTW I have joined the cmca group, thanks mate.
Safe travels
I suspect that John is "on the money" when he said......."and perhaps we, the "traveling GNs", are not sufficiently cohesive as a group to even "vote with our feet" collectively to make enough difference".
I have just finished a 3 week trip, staying in CP's all the way, just as I did during a 12 day trip in March this year. And a 3 week trip in October last year.
All of the time spent in country NSW.
I only stayed, at most, 2 nights in any one CP, mostly using for "over-nighters".
I am in my late 60's, and probably look like a " an old Grey Nomad"?
I have / did not meet or talk to anyone, during any of these trips, who identified as a GN. In fact, several of the persons I did speak to do live on the road, constantly traveling, and when I did ask if the were GN's, I was met a blank look, and asked "what is that".
Yes, I suspect that John is most likely 80-90% correct. When any of us do "vote with our feet", we are seen as just another "old" guy who is too tight to pay his way. The CP owner most likely does not associate us with any collective group at all.
The truth is probably closer to...."we are only a force to be reckoned with,,,, in our own minds...".
If we were visibly part of a larger "formidable" group, who loudly trumpeted our cause and expectations, then maybe, just maybe, we might at ;east get a hearing.
Until then...........
Cheers, KB
Are c/van partks pricing themnselves out of the market...absolutely !!
Australian prices for hospitality services are beyond a joke !! We are so far behind the rest of the world in so many respects, it's frighteneing !!
But some of us who don't travel overseas a great deal have nothing to compare with...
A lot say to themselves "I want to see australia first"...and fair enough...
but that's not to say we shouldn't be competitive with other places equally as beautiful..
I recently spent a month in Thailand and Malaysia...with time at a resort with 3 very large resort style swimming pools, an airconditioned double room with everything that opens and shuts, a breakfast buffet (for 2) thrown in each morning for good measure...wifi, and some very beautiful "guest relations officers" attentive to our every need....
and all this for $50 per night...and that's for both of us...(the room price)
If that doesn't convince us that caravan park are charging way too much for 20 square metres of grass, then I'm not sure what will !
But the unfortunate truth is that caravan parks do not exist to provide a fair and sensible price to GNs, but to maximise profits for their owners....and while they continue to attract paying customers, they don't need to be concerned....I simply vote with my feet.
Lucky for them though...even most of us GNs do feel the need a park with facilities every now and again..
but the councils that are continually shutting down areas that have traditionally been available for us to use as overnighters, and even allocating staff to police these areas at night, and threaten those who attempt to stay with daunting fines.
I don't know how they can legally do this kind of policing, because at last count, I don't recall there ever being any curfews being enacted in this country !
Whoever it is that is doing the work of encouraging the RV Friendly Towns concept, really deserves our sincere gratitude.
Changing the attitude of local councils is the obvious way to go, but it must be a difficult and time consuming process, with little reward.
When I was engaged to sell a certain Caravan Park in Coastal S.A. the new owners could not divest themselves quick enough of the large number of loyal 'permanents' that had occupied sites for many years....cabins, potential re-subdivision, maximising profits was the only consideration.....the 'permanents' only represented potential problems to them, as they could not hope to pay ever increasing site fees.....sites that could earn far more as holiday cabins....and I suggest as a Travelling Group we represent nothing to them, unless we are prepared to pay what they want for all their facilities they provide, rather than what we require, and pay what we consider reasonable....
The bizarre 'Catch 22' is the fact that their vested interests would continue to restrict or ban our Group alternatives around Australia.....I'm currently in Bendigo and attend the Sunday markets at the Prince of Wales Showgrounds....I now see signs that camping has been forbidden at the Showgrounds from 1st May 2014....previously I used to see many Caravans using their reasonable services for a reasonable fee <$20?>...I don't know the politics behind this decision however it's common to many City's and Townships usually due to vested interests on Council attempting to force our Travelling Demographic Group into some sort of submission....stay in Caravan Parks and pay their fees or stay at home........the fact we are increasing yearly in numbers means at some stage "Services suitable to our needs' will have to be made available for essentially self contained small and larger rigs.....
..I think Onedodger made an excellent recommendation as to where we can marshall our efforts/support...to highlight our reasonable needs and wants.....Hoo Roo
The CMCA have their RV friendly town program, the Australian Caravan Club also lobbies councils to provide budget camping, so councils have to balance their policies to satisfy ratepayers (caravan parks) as well as try to attract our business to the town. A bit tricky for them.
We can all do our bit, call into the local council office and ask to speak to their Tourism person, and state your case, they may not do anything, but if we don't tell 'em they won't know will they? Be nice about it because an agro attitude just gets dismissed out of hand.
We recently visited a QLD town that did not allow budget camping on the showgrounds, due to complaints from the caravan parks, and the grotty little caravan park we then stayed in charged $35. A bit of gouging, we felt, so visited the council office, gave them one of our ACC folders with info on what they need to do if they want us to stay and spend money in the town, no response, but at least we gave them the message.
As One Dodger has said, we can do something about it, I am with the ACC, he is with the CMCA, our clubs are working on your behalf, but you can act individually as well if you don't want to join a club.
Cheers all,
Bevan
Some great Ideas listed above about Caravan Parks Pricing.
Its true - really all GNs operate independantly when we each travel. So maybe a lobby group is not the way to go.
However as a group - obviously we would have more pull or weight - even if small - but it could be grown in time.
By that I mean we have a site here - why not use it to our full advantage.
May I suggest that we should start a section or topic on this site purely for listing by state - any reasonable CP that does charge a reasonable rate.
We could then - as individuals submit - then use and promote to Fellow GNs.
Also we could inform the CP "that we will have them listed on this GNs Site" for others visiting the area to use.
The other thing is marketing. As Individuals do we promote this site. We all should. Maybe a drive for each of us to gain x number of new members.
I dont know how many times I have come accross other GNs - who arent registered on here - or know of us at all - but still travel as we do.
The more we have registered on here the better for all of us really.
So as a suggestion Im willing to donate money to put towards a promotion for new members
We could then use this for members to promote by say having some extra stickers to hand out" may encourage them to join and "stick one on"
And yes as members in here - there is nothing to stop us - also being members of the ACC & CMCA as well.
It maybe only small at first - but as we the GNs use this site to locate CPs to use - recommended by this site over time by fellow GNs
CPs/ Councils / Information Centres would gradually come to see we are as "group" and maybe have some more "pull" with their rates.
and that there is a benefit in trying to accomodate more GNs as the list grows to promote their town.
The benefits I see would be
1 GNs could list the - location - site fees and short note about the location which would benefit other members
2 GNs would be seen as a more cohesive group etc.
3 Expensive sites would NOT be listed so would be as thou "we walked with our feet"
4 Any future loby group or discussion would have some basic facts about member numbers where we go and what we want.
Even today at our GN gathering for lunch in Brisbane South - I learned of another site which I will try in future.
There must be thousands of them from all over the country. Even in my own state Im sure interstate travellers to here know more than I do.
The thing we all forget on here is that "We ARE all - the eyes and ears of sites - around Australia".. so why not use this to our advantage.
After all - this site is not just for having a say...or posting a question/answer ?is it"???
Im sure the information would grow and could be accessed by the other groups mentioned above as well to be used.
Im sure Cindy or someone would have no problem in policing what is listed and stick to a format.
Just a thought.
Cheers
KT
-- Edited by KeenTravellers on Monday 6th of October 2014 12:38:14 AM
-- Edited by KeenTravellers on Monday 6th of October 2014 12:42:22 AM