Dear Older Traveller, This is a letter from a mum with three small children, on the road fulltime. We see you a lot on the road, nearly every night in fact. I am thankful for the oppotunities my children get to interact with older people, especially since they are missing their own grandparents so much. You, who have travelled far more than us, have much experience and wisdom to pass on to us younger ones.
Do you remember when your children were little? It can be so relentless, parenting, made harder by having no support nearby. We are together in our little van 100% of the time. Don't get me wrong, we love this life, and we love each other, but it is certainly not rosy all the time. My children are loud, sometimes. Sometimes they cry, and argue, or play and laugh loudly. They are living their lives, just as they would if we were at home. I am truly sorry that sometimes we destroy your peaceful afternoons.
But, please, sometimes could you remember to give this tired mama a smile, instead of a frown, when her children are being difficult? Maybe, when you get together with other older travellers in the campground for happy hour, invite us too. Hard days feel harder when we feel alone. A bit of kindness might turn that hard day around. I know my children annoy you, they annoy me too! But they are delightful little beings as well.
I hope to see some of you around a campfire in this great country of ours, that we are all enjoying exploring, each in our own ways.
Kind regards, Loving (and often exhausted) mama.
Dougwe said
04:06 PM Sep 19, 2014
How sad to think she feels that way. I for one have no problem with kids playing, doesn't bother me at all. If they find themselves as neighbours of mine I will share my happy hour with them for sure.
GaryKelly said
04:10 PM Sep 19, 2014
Ya got me, Tezza. I'm glad you pointed out the difficulties you're having because many of us are either unaware or have forgotten... and often too quick to judge. I hope you start getting many smiles rather than frowns from now on.
the rocket said
04:16 PM Sep 19, 2014
Dougwe wrote:
How sad to think she feels that way. I for one have no problem with kids playing, doesn't bother me at all. If they find themselves as neighbours of mine I will share my happy hour with them for sure.
same here dougwe, remember those days well. We can all pull up a chair and even fire up the barbie.
billeeeeeee said
04:41 PM Sep 19, 2014
Don't worry , I have met Nomads, !!Who!!, don't even like themselves, true,,, think they get out of bed every morning , and sux on half a dozen lemons, just to act, and look the part, so don't worry , you will meet us all out there , The good , the bad , and the unexcited Nomads,, !!And!!, the Nutty Nomads, and the fruit loops, Which I enjoy there company immensely,,,,,, a very excited Nomad,,,,, Billeeeeeee
We had a young family came to camp pat Greens Lake last summer. Mum, dad and five kids - 2,4,6,8 &10!!
So well behaved - came to our campfire and were a delight, offering marshmallows to everyone - they had fun, racing around all day, swimming and generally having fun! A pleasure to meet - and such great parents - they are on the road around the country, so if you see a big grey buss with mum and dad and five kids on board - say g'day!
Glenelg said
06:30 PM Sep 19, 2014
i am happy to share my happy hour or two with the kids and mama. that is sad we were in the same boat once with the kids. my grandkids keep my glass full. maybe thats not so good ,but let them go we are only young once. cheers.
Gerty Dancer said
06:52 PM Sep 19, 2014
I'm really sad you felt you had to make that post, Mama. We've camped beside families and enjoyed interacting with them, and in future will try to be more involved.
Hang in there! we're not all bad tempered old Nomads.
Bryan said
07:28 PM Sep 19, 2014
Gerty Dancer wrote:
I'm really sad you felt you had to make that post, Mama. We've camped beside families and enjoyed interacting with them, and in future will try to be more involved. Hang in there! we're not all bad tempered old Nomads.
My sentiments exactly GD.
Cupie said
07:53 PM Sep 19, 2014
Bryan wrote:
Gerty Dancer wrote:
I'm really sad you felt you had to make that post, Mama. We've camped beside families and enjoyed interacting with them, and in future will try to be more involved. Hang in there! we're not all bad tempered old Nomads.
My sentiments exactly GD.
Me too.
We love caravanning with our young Grand Children.
Awatea said
08:21 PM Sep 19, 2014
Hey Mama,
I'll put my earplugs in and enjoy your kids and their wonderful energy any day!
hope our paths cross some time soon :)
Vic41 said
08:38 PM Sep 19, 2014
Although I sympathise with you, if kids are left to run around unsupervised (not saying yours aren't) they can get peoples backs up.
I have had kids both day and night time running under and around the awning of my then caravan (playing hide and seek games etc) tripping over my awning tie downs jerking my awning etc, with the parents nowhere to be seen.
Awnings are expensive to replace so maybe happenings like this make nomads unfriendly if they have experienced kids are running around a persons RV without proper supervision. However I do not have problems with kids making noise or having fun but they are the responsibility of the parent, not others in the park. Fortunately the parents that just don't care what their kids are doing in a park are in a minority.
Two weeks ago I was in a CP where the van alongside me complained of unsupervised kids running around their van and through their awning area, also kicking a football which kept hitting the side of their van, despite an adjoining park area short walk away. Oh, and the parents? Nowhere to be seen.
PS: Having said that you and the kids would be welcome at my campfire or happy hour....
(Having brought 4 young kids up as a solo working parent without assistance (I was lucky enough to score a job near home where I was out and about and had the flexibility to take/pick then up from school, appointments etc) I am well aware of the stresses and difficulties of bringing up kids.
4 kids (now adults), 12 grandkids and two great grand kids. Remarried since the kids grew up and left home and also have two stepdaughters and two stepgrandkids to add the the initial family.)
-- Edited by Vic41 on Saturday 20th of September 2014 12:51:50 PM
exa41 said
10:54 PM Sep 19, 2014
HI gang , my wife calls me Peter Perfect of which I am not and don't expect anyone else to be , respect and politeness yes but that's the parents responsibility to do not mine. As been said before come and join but don`t annoy,
Bevandy2 said
11:44 PM Sep 19, 2014
Hi Tezza, don't despair dear, we are out there, and you will meet many of us.
I have the three most gorgeous grand kids in Katherine, and two more in Melb, we know the littlies love life and like to play, having had three of our own we also know the harrassments and trials of raising them.
Some people, sadly, forget what it was like to be a kid, without a care in the world.
You young mums are the back bone of society, (I am the dad of two young mums, so can back you up) so let the negatives wash over you like water off an umbrella, look for and embrace the ones who support and empathise with you, I think you will find that will be most of us.
People generally reflect back on us what we convey to them too, just as an after thought. I have often found if you walk the street with a smile for everyone, they will smile back, a life long experience, gotta love our fellow man, or woman, hey!
Don't despair Tezza, I was a company rep for years, and I learnt that for every lousy one you met there were a hundred others who made your day. Ignore the lousy, look for the ones in the hundred.
That's us, right here. We hit the road tomorrow for a long trip and I hope we meet many young families like yours, we love the interaction with the young ones.
Bevan
Dougwe said
06:20 AM Sep 20, 2014
I might slip back in here for a sec and say, I didn't read the letter as being from "Tezza" sorry. Unless I am missing something of course and that wouldn't surprise me at all. I thought Tezza just posted for someone else.
It would be nice if "tezza n tomoko" could come back in and clear things up maybe
Changes nothing anyway, my original comment stands.
I do hope though that the young family give us a second chance. Everyone is entitled to a second chance.
Fastcoach said
08:19 AM Sep 20, 2014
I think it's lovely that some young parents take their kids on the road to experience the great outdoors. Not so sure it's such a good idea if they're of school age and are being "home schooled". From what I've read in recent studies, kids fall behind their peers very quickly if they miss even a few days of proper schooling. Most home school parents have little if any real knowledge of how to school their kids properly.
What I dislike about kids being "let of the lead" around other campers, either in caravan parks or at free sites, is many of them see it as an opportunity to go berserk. Screaming around the place and generally annoying anyone and everyone in their path.
It probably won't surprise, but I feel the same about some dog owners, who immediately upon arrival let the dogs go for a run, no doubt so they can have a good old fashioned bowel movement. Not too many plastic bags used to clean up either.
Then there's the "camp DJ" types who think that the rest of the camp would love to listen to their music selection. Almost invariably they play either country or western and generally loudly so we don't miss a single note.
Finally we have the folk who want to have everything they have at home at their finger tips. This obviously requires a lot of power and when free camping it often means the use of a generator is required. Decent manners would suggest that these things should only be used sparingly and at very specific times. So if you arrive late at your chosen spot, maybe you might like to wait until the morning before powering up.
Camping is a great thing to do, but it does require a good deal of consideration for others. Control your children and let them know it's not OK for them to go racing around unsupervised. Keep your dogs quiet and on a lead and pick up after them. Keep your music to yourself and if you must listen to loud music or TV, get a set of headphones and blow your head off if you like. Only use a low noise gennie between 9am and 8pm and as a courtesy to your neighbours, let them know how long you will need to use it.
As for "tessa n tomoko", I'm sure you'll be invited to plenty of campfires once you get your little darlings under control.
Kendo said
09:16 AM Sep 20, 2014
Great watching Kids being Kids
This lot kept us amused for ages watching them play with this esky (note the supervision).
With all the issues with kids these days with childhood obesity, aliergies, etc. It's important to remember that it's actually good for them to be out and about.
I think where things go wrong these days is the "goodie two shoes" brigade allowing things to go unchecked. Kids need discipline, they need to know where the limits are. It's human nature to test where these limits are from time to time, that's their job! That's what kids do.
What the actual discipline should be? Well that's another debate all in itself. Lets just say it should be something appropriate for the "crime". It makes me "numb" when you see the modern parent trying to explain to a one year old how electricity works and the way it can flow though a conductive material and how it can interupt the workings of the cardiac system, and that they really shouldn't poke that "sharp" knife into the power socket....... (Do I really need to say any more?)...grrrrr
Have I hijacked the topic?....yup
Back to the "mumma". Good on ya for reminding us that not all kids should be frowned upon. Your in the middle of a journey that many off us here have done and forgotten. Kids don't come with a set of instructions (being a male I wouldn't know how to read them anyway). We all do the best we can with the tools and experience we have (even the frustrating "explain everything to the kids" brigade).
Good on ya! Your time as a parent can be frustrating, maddening, and a hell of a lot of fun. Remember the good times, take a lot of pictures (we all forget things sooo quickly), and the bad...wellllll don't take pictures of them .
Jeff
Happywanderer said
09:16 AM Sep 20, 2014
I have seen this on Facebook written by someone with a different name, don't think it is the OP who wrote it here.
Gerty Dancer said
09:50 AM Sep 20, 2014
I assumed it was someone else who used Tezza's log-in, with his permission, to publicise their problem.
Dougwe said
09:57 AM Sep 20, 2014
Kendo wrote:
Great watching Kids being Kids
This lot kept us amused for ages watching them play with this esky (note the supervision).
With all the issues with kids these days with childhood obesity, aliergies, etc. It's important to remember that it's actually good for them to be out and about.
I think where things go wrong these days is the "goodie two shoes" brigade allowing things to go unchecked. Kids need discipline, they need to know where the limits are. It's human nature to test where these limits are from time to time, that's their job! That's what kids do.
What the actual discipline should be? Well that's another debate all in itself. Lets just say it should be something appropriate for the "crime". It makes me "numb" when you see the modern parent trying to explain to a one year old how electricity works and the way it can flow though a conductive material and how it can interupt the workings of the cardiac system, and that they really shouldn't poke that "sharp" knife into the power socket....... (Do I really need to say any more?)...grrrrr
Have I hijacked the topic?....yup
Back to the "mumma". Good on ya for reminding us that not all kids should be frowned upon. Your in the middle of a journey that many off us here have done and forgotten. Kids don't come with a set of instructions (being a male I wouldn't know how to read them anyway). We all do the best we can with the tools and experience we have (even the frustrating "explain everything to the kids" brigade).
Good on ya! Your time as a parent can be frustrating, maddening, and a hell of a lot of fun. Remember the good times, take a lot of pictures (we all forget things sooo quickly), and the bad...wellllll don't take pictures of them .
Jeff
That little fella certainly looks edumacated to me. Got is priorities right anyway
billeeeeeee said
10:22 AM Sep 20, 2014
Fastcoach wrote:
I think it's lovely that some young parents take their kids on the road to experience the great outdoors. Not so sure it's such a good idea if they're of school age and are being "home schooled". From what I've read in recent studies, kids fall behind their peers very quickly if they miss even a few days of proper schooling. Most home school parents have little if any real knowledge of how to school their kids properly.
What I dislike about kids being "let of the lead" around other campers, either in caravan parks or at free sites, is many of them see it as an opportunity to go berserk. Screaming around the place and generally annoying anyone and everyone in their path.
It probably won't surprise, but I feel the same about some dog owners, who immediately upon arrival let the dogs go for a run, no doubt so they can have a good old fashioned bowel movement. Not too many plastic bags used to clean up either.
Then there's the "camp DJ" types who think that the rest of the camp would love to listen to their music selection. Almost invariably they play either country or western and generally loudly so we don't miss a single note.
Finally we have the folk who want to have everything they have at home at their finger tips. This obviously requires a lot of power and when free camping it often means the use of a generator is required. Decent manners would suggest that these things should only be used sparingly and at very specific times. So if you arrive late at your chosen spot, maybe you might like to wait until the morning before powering up.
Camping is a great thing to do, but it does require a good deal of consideration for others. Control your children and let them know it's not OK for them to go racing around unsupervised. Keep your dogs quiet and on a lead and pick up after them. Keep your music to yourself and if you must listen to loud music or TV, get a set of headphones and blow your head off if you like. Only use a low noise gennie between 9am and 8pm and as a courtesy to your neighbours, let them know how long you will need to use it. ----------------------------------------------------------=-=--=---------------------------------------=-=-=-=-=-=---= Don't forget , we were kids once,,, well most of us
Unfortunately even where one has the highest tolerance and acceptance of children possible it behooves us all to ensure that children do not risk injury from any of our kit or actions.
It is only a question of time before someone sues and that can be years later.
I am wondering if anyone saw the news article on the child, now adult who sued the grandparents for an injury from boiling water (pulled the cord of an electric kettle). I am not disagreeing with the decision (see the reasons) but simply saying that whether we like it or not, where there could be children about we may one day find that we too are their carers, or at least must ensure our gear, site and actions are 'child friendly'.
A BURNS victim has successfully sued her elderly grandma for more than $90,000 over a childhood scalding accident which left one of her breasts deformed.
Coffs Harbour's Kobie Thompson was a toddler when she pulled on a cord of a boiling kettle, causing it to tip over the edge of a bench and splash hot water all over her at her grandma's Central Coast home.
..
Ms Thompson's grandmother defended claims of negligence on the grounds she was preparing dinner at the time the accident occurred, and believed her granddaughter was being supervised by her mother.
But Judge Michael Elkaim found that "a reasonable person.. knowing that children as young as 20 months of age would be in the area, and having regard to what one might expect of the level of personal safety capable of being exercised by such a young child, that precautions would have been taken".
He said "the burden of taking precautions would have been very light..the kettle could simply have been located in a safer place" and ruled that the mother's supervisory role didn't interfere with the link between the negligence of the grandma and the scalding of the child.
-- Edited by johnq on Saturday 20th of September 2014 10:45:39 AM
dorian said
11:44 AM Sep 20, 2014
Are we now going to see [grand]parental indemnity insurance?
banjo said
11:54 AM Sep 20, 2014
Being full time travellers we have seen both side of this coin, we have had great families and kids near us and we have had many nightmares of families from hell.
Not being anti kids here as we have 5 of our own and eleven grandkids. But IMO school age kids should be at school learning how to interact with other kids and how to behave in society generally, something very lacking in some families !
This so called home schooling is rubbish from what we've seen, five minutes sitting at a table pretending to do some work, then off to do whatever. Some say travel alone is a great education, I don't think so, they need to learn many things in life and respect for others is very important.
Again before I get jumped on, will say we have met wonderful families on the road too, but, all are not the same.
Bryan said
02:13 PM Sep 20, 2014
dorian wrote:
Are we now going to see [grand]parental indemnity insurance?
It's a worry Dorian. Maybe this is why people don't rush to each others help anymore.
It's really sad and I wonder if a similar trend destroyed the great civilisations of the past.
tezza n tomoko said
07:47 PM Sep 20, 2014
G,day all yes it is not about me or my family but it could well be we are a two young child family and will be travelling full time I realise there are many more great nomads out there and I know they will mix with our kids as I am sure many will be missing there own grandkids, if it is a culture to walk around a free camp and invite travellers to join a happy hour then that's great but what this lady was saying was a nomad walked around the camp invited all travellers except the family with kids in front of them then that is a ****ty un Australian thing to do,i enjoy the greynomad site and have learnt so much from the slightly older generations experience, I also having a young family second time around enjoy a site families on the road which also helps families with kids learn from others experiences but there have been experiences where grey nomads pull in to a FREE camp area and rope areas off as they are expecting there mates later in the day and when questioned on this behaviour the tell the questioning person to piss off is this FAIR do you think ??anyway I didn't intend to comment only to clear up that it was another young mother who experienced this behaviour,families with kids travelling have the exact same right to travel and free camp as the greynomad travellers so please take a chill pill enjoy others travelling experiences and you may learn from the future generation of Australians
johnq said
01:43 AM Sep 21, 2014
I suggest you are talking about something different, namely incivility. It extends across the full spectrum of people and social interaction and is not restricted to children and free camping.
There probably was always a percentage of rude, selfish people about but you are bound to meet more, and such uncivil behaviour is more likely, with increased population. I believe that perceived entitlement (and some have a very high sense of their own entitlement) and anonymity encourage it. Group membership, eg travelling in a group, would allow an uncivil type to feel more protected and 'justified' in being rude to others.
You have given some blatant examples, but there is a mountainous dung pile of subtle uncivil behaviour that is hurtful, eg the shop assistant who turns her back after seeing an older person approaching. She wouldn't want to waste time exchanging the necessary pleasantries with an old codger, now would she? -Old people, especially old men, could tell some tales.
Most of us were raised under an ethical system where we were admonished to be courteous and consider others, "Do unto others as etc." ('Do as you would be done by'). Golden Law.
Maybe that helps and maybe not.
Plendo said
09:49 AM Sep 21, 2014
John, I think you have hit the nail fair ans square on the head.
Lack of civility can range as you said from the downright rude, through to the subtle things that people do not realise they are doing.
There are a few things make this worse for us members of the older generation:
1. We were brought up with our "old fashioned" values, "children should be seen and not heard", respect for elders, not interupting when someone else is talking, etc.
2. We were brought up in a time when the most important thing in our lives was people, and our relationship with people, what we could do for them. NOW, the most important thing in a young person's life is the electronic device they are attached to.
3. We are not blameless either, many of us struggle to sort out voices in noisy environments, and I suspec t we often miss things as a result (talking from personal experience).
It is interesting to watch group dynamics over the generations:
Put a group of older people round a table and the conversation is generally cordial, yes there will be lively debate, but it will be civil and polite. People listen.
Put a group of 30+ females round a table, and the ones that are not breathing in are talking, and since they take turns breathing, there is not a lot of listening going on. Sorry Ladies.
Put a group of teenagers round a table, and it is almost silent, they are all texting, or checking facebook, etc. Not much listening, as there is nothing worth listening to.
WHAT HAVE WE DONE !
Bryan said
10:23 AM Sep 21, 2014
There are many of the older generation with lack of tolerance for others. Although I always try and see things from others point of view. I know I've been less tolerant and guilty a few times.
-- Edited by Bryan on Sunday 21st of September 2014 10:27:02 AM
Vic41 said
12:55 PM Sep 21, 2014
Bryan wrote:
There are many of the older generation with lack of tolerance for others. Although I always try and see things from others point of view. I know I've been less tolerant and guilty a few times.
I love my kids, grandkids and great grand kids, however I also like to escape on a trip to have some time out away from them and I know there are some other nomads feel the same.
Some (I said some, not all) travellers may be reluctant to invite families with children to their happy hour as it could stilt the conversation after a few drinks when bawdy jokes or adult topics may be discussed, I am just guessing this as a possible reason for not including them by some.
Dear Older Traveller,
This is a letter from a mum with three small children, on the road fulltime. We see you a lot on the road, nearly every night in fact. I am thankful for the oppotunities my children get to interact with older people, especially since they are missing their own grandparents so much. You, who have travelled far more than us, have much experience and wisdom to pass on to us younger ones.
Do you remember when your children were little? It can be so relentless, parenting, made harder by having no support nearby. We are together in our little van 100% of the time. Don't get me wrong, we love this life, and we love each other, but it is certainly not rosy all the time. My children are loud, sometimes. Sometimes they cry, and argue, or play and laugh loudly. They are living their lives, just as they would if we were at home. I am truly sorry that sometimes we destroy your peaceful afternoons.
But, please, sometimes could you remember to give this tired mama a smile, instead of a frown, when her children are being difficult? Maybe, when you get together with other older travellers in the campground for happy hour, invite us too. Hard days feel harder when we feel alone. A bit of kindness might turn that hard day around. I know my children annoy you, they annoy me too! But they are delightful little beings as well.
I hope to see some of you around a campfire in this great country of ours, that we are all enjoying exploring, each in our own ways.
Kind regards,
Loving (and often exhausted) mama.
Don't worry , I have met Nomads, !!Who!!, don't even like themselves, true,,, think they get out of bed every morning , and sux on half a dozen lemons, just to act, and look the part, so don't worry , you will meet us all out there , The good , the bad , and the unexcited Nomads,, !!And!!, the Nutty Nomads, and the fruit loops, Which I enjoy there company immensely,,,,,, a very excited Nomad,,,,, Billeeeeeee
So well behaved - came to our campfire and were a delight, offering marshmallows to everyone - they had fun, racing around all day, swimming and generally having fun! A pleasure to meet - and such great parents - they are on the road around the country, so if you see a big grey buss with mum and dad and five kids on board - say g'day!
Hang in there! we're not all bad tempered old Nomads.
My sentiments exactly GD.
Me too.
We love caravanning with our young Grand Children.
Hey Mama,
I'll put my earplugs in and enjoy your kids and their wonderful energy any day!
hope our paths cross some time soon :)
Although I sympathise with you, if kids are left to run around unsupervised (not saying yours aren't) they can get peoples backs up.
I have had kids both day and night time running under and around the awning of my then caravan (playing hide and seek games etc) tripping over my awning tie downs jerking my awning etc, with the parents nowhere to be seen.
Awnings are expensive to replace so maybe happenings like this make nomads unfriendly if they have experienced kids are running around a persons RV without proper supervision. However I do not have problems with kids making noise or having fun but they are the responsibility of the parent, not others in the park. Fortunately the parents that just don't care what their kids are doing in a park are in a minority.
Two weeks ago I was in a CP where the van alongside me complained of unsupervised kids running around their van and through their awning area, also kicking a football which kept hitting the side of their van, despite an adjoining park area short walk away. Oh, and the parents? Nowhere to be seen.
PS: Having said that you and the kids would be welcome at my campfire or happy hour....
(Having brought 4 young kids up as a solo working parent without assistance (I was lucky enough to score a job near home where I was out and about and had the flexibility to take/pick then up from school, appointments etc) I am well aware of the stresses and difficulties of bringing up kids.
4 kids (now adults), 12 grandkids and two great grand kids. Remarried since the kids grew up and left home and also have two stepdaughters and two stepgrandkids to add the the initial family.)
-- Edited by Vic41 on Saturday 20th of September 2014 12:51:50 PM
I have the three most gorgeous grand kids in Katherine, and two more in Melb, we know the littlies love life and like to play, having had three of our own we also know the harrassments and trials of raising them.
Some people, sadly, forget what it was like to be a kid, without a care in the world.
You young mums are the back bone of society, (I am the dad of two young mums, so can back you up) so let the negatives wash over you like water off an umbrella, look for and embrace the ones who support and empathise with you, I think you will find that will be most of us.
People generally reflect back on us what we convey to them too, just as an after thought. I have often found if you walk the street with a smile for everyone, they will smile back, a life long experience, gotta love our fellow man, or woman, hey!
Don't despair Tezza, I was a company rep for years, and I learnt that for every lousy one you met there were a hundred others who made your day. Ignore the lousy, look for the ones in the hundred.
That's us, right here. We hit the road tomorrow for a long trip and I hope we meet many young families like yours, we love the interaction with the young ones.
Bevan
I might slip back in here for a sec and say, I didn't read the letter as being from "Tezza" sorry. Unless I am missing something of course and that wouldn't surprise me at all. I thought Tezza just posted for someone else.
It would be nice if "tezza n tomoko" could come back in and clear things up maybe
Changes nothing anyway, my original comment stands.
I do hope though that the young family give us a second chance. Everyone is entitled to a second chance.
What I dislike about kids being "let of the lead" around other campers, either in caravan parks or at free sites, is many of them see it as an opportunity to go berserk. Screaming around the place and generally annoying anyone and everyone in their path.
It probably won't surprise, but I feel the same about some dog owners, who immediately upon arrival let the dogs go for a run, no doubt so they can have a good old fashioned bowel movement. Not too many plastic bags used to clean up either.
Then there's the "camp DJ" types who think that the rest of the camp would love to listen to their music selection. Almost invariably they play either country or western and generally loudly so we don't miss a single note.
Finally we have the folk who want to have everything they have at home at their finger tips. This obviously requires a lot of power and when free camping it often means the use of a generator is required. Decent manners would suggest that these things should only be used sparingly and at very specific times. So if you arrive late at your chosen spot, maybe you might like to wait until the morning before powering up.
Camping is a great thing to do, but it does require a good deal of consideration for others. Control your children and let them know it's not OK for them to go racing around unsupervised. Keep your dogs quiet and on a lead and pick up after them. Keep your music to yourself and if you must listen to loud music or TV, get a set of headphones and blow your head off if you like. Only use a low noise gennie between 9am and 8pm and as a courtesy to your neighbours, let them know how long you will need to use it.
As for "tessa n tomoko", I'm sure you'll be invited to plenty of campfires once you get your little darlings under control.
Great watching Kids being Kids
This lot kept us amused for ages watching them play with this esky (note the supervision).
With all the issues with kids these days with childhood obesity, aliergies, etc. It's important to remember that it's actually good for them to be out and about.
I think where things go wrong these days is the "goodie two shoes" brigade allowing things to go unchecked. Kids need discipline, they need to know where the limits are. It's human nature to test where these limits are from time to time, that's their job! That's what kids do.
What the actual discipline should be? Well that's another debate all in itself. Lets just say it should be something appropriate for the "crime". It makes me "numb" when you see the modern parent trying to explain to a one year old how electricity works and the way it can flow though a conductive material and how it can interupt the workings of the cardiac system, and that they really shouldn't poke that "sharp" knife into the power socket....... (Do I really need to say any more?)...grrrrr
Have I hijacked the topic?....yup
Back to the "mumma". Good on ya for reminding us that not all kids should be frowned upon. Your in the middle of a journey that many off us here have done and forgotten. Kids don't come with a set of instructions (being a male I wouldn't know how to read them anyway). We all do the best we can with the tools and experience we have (even the frustrating "explain everything to the kids" brigade).
Good on ya!
Your time as a parent can be frustrating, maddening, and a hell of a lot of fun. Remember the good times, take a lot of pictures (we all forget things sooo quickly), and the bad...wellllll don't take pictures of them 
.
Jeff
That little fella certainly looks edumacated to me. Got is priorities right anyway
Unfortunately even where one has the highest tolerance and acceptance of children possible it behooves us all to ensure that children do not risk injury from any of our kit or actions.
It is only a question of time before someone sues and that can be years later.
I am wondering if anyone saw the news article on the child, now adult who sued the grandparents for an injury from boiling water (pulled the cord of an electric kettle). I am not disagreeing with the decision (see the reasons) but simply saying that whether we like it or not, where there could be children about we may one day find that we too are their carers, or at least must ensure our gear, site and actions are 'child friendly'.
A BURNS victim has successfully sued her elderly grandma for more than $90,000 over a childhood scalding accident which left one of her breasts deformed.
Coffs Harbour's Kobie Thompson was a toddler when she pulled on a cord of a boiling kettle, causing it to tip over the edge of a bench and splash hot water all over her at her grandma's Central Coast home.
..
Ms Thompson's grandmother defended claims of negligence on the grounds she was preparing dinner at the time the accident occurred, and believed her granddaughter was being supervised by her mother.
But Judge Michael Elkaim found that "a reasonable person.. knowing that children as young as 20 months of age would be in the area, and having regard to what one might expect of the level of personal safety capable of being exercised by such a young child, that precautions would have been taken".
He said "the burden of taking precautions would have been very light..the kettle could simply have been located in a safer place" and ruled that the mother's supervisory role didn't interfere with the link between the negligence of the grandma and the scalding of the child.
Taking into account past and future economic loss and medical expenses, he ordered the grandma to pay $92,909.10 in damages.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/jessica-grewal-apn-newsdesk-jessicagrewalapncomaua/2199218/
-- Edited by johnq on Saturday 20th of September 2014 10:45:39 AM
Not being anti kids here as we have 5 of our own and eleven grandkids. But IMO school age kids should be at school learning how to interact with other kids and how to behave in society generally, something very lacking in some families !
This so called home schooling is rubbish from what we've seen, five minutes sitting at a table pretending to do some work, then off to do whatever. Some say travel alone is a great education, I don't think so, they need to learn many things in life and respect for others is very important.
Again before I get jumped on, will say we have met wonderful families on the road too, but, all are not the same.
It's a worry Dorian. Maybe this is why people don't rush to each others help anymore.
It's really sad and I wonder if a similar trend destroyed the great civilisations of the past.
G,day all yes it is not about me or my family but it could well be we are a two young child family and will be travelling full time I realise there are many more great nomads out there and I know they will mix with our kids as I am sure many will be missing there own grandkids, if it is a culture to walk around a free camp and invite travellers to join a happy hour then that's great but what this lady was saying was a nomad walked around the camp invited all travellers except the family with kids in front of them then that is a ****ty un Australian thing to do,i enjoy the greynomad site and have learnt so much from the slightly older generations experience, I also having a young family second time around enjoy a site families on the road which also helps families with kids learn from others experiences but there have been experiences where grey nomads pull in to a FREE camp area and rope areas off as they are expecting there mates later in the day and when questioned on this behaviour the tell the questioning person to piss off is this FAIR do you think ??anyway I didn't intend to comment only to clear up that it was another young mother who experienced this behaviour,families with kids travelling have the exact same right to travel and free camp as the greynomad travellers so please take a chill pill enjoy others travelling experiences and you may learn from the future generation of Australians
There probably was always a percentage of rude, selfish people about but you are bound to meet more, and such uncivil behaviour is more likely, with increased population. I believe that perceived entitlement (and some have a very high sense of their own entitlement) and anonymity encourage it. Group membership, eg travelling in a group, would allow an uncivil type to feel more protected and 'justified' in being rude to others.
You have given some blatant examples, but there is a mountainous dung pile of subtle uncivil behaviour that is hurtful, eg the shop assistant who turns her back after seeing an older person approaching. She wouldn't want to waste time exchanging the necessary pleasantries with an old codger, now would she? -Old people, especially old men, could tell some tales.
Most of us were raised under an ethical system where we were admonished to be courteous and consider others, "Do unto others as etc." ('Do as you would be done by'). Golden Law.
Maybe that helps and maybe not.
John, I think you have hit the nail fair ans square on the head.
Lack of civility can range as you said from the downright rude, through to the subtle things that people do not realise they are doing.
There are a few things make this worse for us members of the older generation:
1. We were brought up with our "old fashioned" values, "children should be seen and not heard", respect for elders, not interupting when someone else is talking, etc.
2. We were brought up in a time when the most important thing in our lives was people, and our relationship with people, what we could do for them. NOW, the most important thing in a young person's life is the electronic device they are attached to.
3. We are not blameless either, many of us struggle to sort out voices in noisy environments, and I suspec t we often miss things as a result (talking from personal experience).
It is interesting to watch group dynamics over the generations:
Put a group of older people round a table and the conversation is generally cordial, yes there will be lively debate, but it will be civil and polite. People listen.
Put a group of 30+ females round a table, and the ones that are not breathing in are talking, and since they take turns breathing, there is not a lot of listening going on. Sorry Ladies.
Put a group of teenagers round a table, and it is almost silent, they are all texting, or checking facebook, etc. Not much listening, as there is nothing worth listening to.
WHAT HAVE WE DONE !
There are many of the older generation with lack of tolerance for others. Although I always try and see things from others point of view. I know I've been less tolerant and guilty a few times.
-- Edited by Bryan on Sunday 21st of September 2014 10:27:02 AM
I love my kids, grandkids and great grand kids, however I also like to escape on a trip to have some time out away from them and I know there are some other nomads feel the same.
Some (I said some, not all) travellers may be reluctant to invite families with children to their happy hour as it could stilt the conversation after a few drinks when bawdy jokes or adult topics may be discussed, I am just guessing this as a possible reason for not including them by some.