Seen a lot of Tugs with Caravans on the rd over 7.5m without Do Not Overtake Turning Vehicle on left of van
Glenelg said
04:05 PM Jul 11, 2014
if you tow & your Tug plus van are over 7.5m you can put a sign on left side at back. to help you turn left without the sign it is illegal to use two or part of two lanes to turn left. with the sign on back you are covered by law, if a car comes up the left side of you and hits you so long as left indicator is on you are in the right.
i didn't know that . i suppose it makes sence
Plendo said
04:17 PM Jul 11, 2014
With the sign on the back it works both ways, not just left. For example if you are going round a roundabout in the left lane and overlap into the right lane.
Glenelg said
04:28 PM Jul 11, 2014
Hi Plendo.
so what you are saying that we should have sign on both sides, that makes more sense again. i'm only asking as i 'm not on the rd yet.
am a carpet cleaner on the rd all day long it surprises me the amount of caravans & 5th wheelers don't have them signs on back.
Olley46 said
05:06 PM Jul 11, 2014
I fitted 2on mine one left and one right I don't think it matters about the right one but hopefully there not needed.
Lance C
Legendts said
06:01 PM Jul 11, 2014
This from vehicle standards which may help.
General Requirements
All vehicles with a gross vehicle mass (GVM) over 12 tonnes and trailers with a gross trailer mass (GTM) over 10 tonnes must be fitted with retroreflective rear marking plates. Buses with a gross vehicle mass over 12 tonnes must also be fitted with rear marking plates but buses fitted with hand grips or similar equipment for standing passengers to hold are exempt from these requirements.
Prime mover and semi-trailer combinations must display the plates at the rear of the semi-trailer.
Rear marking plates may also be fitted to any motor vehicle with less than 12 tonnes gross vehicle mass or to any trailer with less than 10 tonnes gross trailer mass. If your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you may then also have the sign DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE displayed at the rear.
Rear marking plates may also be fitted to light vehicles. However, in certain jurisdictions if the vehicle is less than 7.5 metres long, the plates must not have the words DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE.
Australian Standards AS 4001 2003 Motor Vehicles Rear Marker Plates Parts 1 and 3 (Manufacturing requirements) and Part 2 (Fitting requirements) provides for plates made from Class 1, Class 1A and Class 2 retroreflective material. Class 1 retroreflective material is more durable and because of its improved retroreflective performance, when compared to the older Class 2 plates, the plates can be smaller and yet reflect more light. Class 1A pressure sensitive plates have been developed so that these plates can be affixed directly to the vehicle without a metal backing plate.
You may use either style provided that both plates on any one vehicle are of the same size and material. Plates complying with AS 4001 are available in either rectangular or strip configuration as illustrated in the Figures 1 and 2 respectively.
Class 1 plates are preferred because they outperform and outlast Class 2 plates.
-- Edited by Legendts on Friday 11th of July 2014 06:04:51 PM
hako said
06:05 PM Jul 11, 2014
I think you still need to use proper care and attention to the possibility of vehicles trying to overtake on the left or whatever - and if an accident ensues then you need to prove you had your left flasher on and even if you can prove that then you still can be charged with causing an accident. Being in the right matters little.
Good Luck.
moamajohn said
07:50 PM Jul 11, 2014
UM, far be it for me to be a wet blanket here but really ........ how many of us think that anyone reads these signs ? ,it is a duty of care and for us to feel good about ourselves and thats it . This is reality .
Sparkster said
08:46 PM Jul 11, 2014
moamajohn, I think the point of the exercise is that provided the driver has done everything right and has the misfortune of some impatient dill running into him then you are probably in the clear if displaying the signs in accordance with the regulations.
Reference your stay in "The Ridge" somebody on another thread has suggested you get out to Glengarry and Grawin, great idea try not to miss it we were there two years ago and it is another world.
Try a hamburger at the Glengarry Hilton, they are the best you'll get anywhere and the beer coldest and wettest than anywhere!
Happy Travels Keith....
deverall11 said
08:47 PM Jul 11, 2014
Westy, I beg to differ. My understanding is that it come down to fault. If some smartass decides to overtake you whilst you are turning and there is a collision, YOU are automatically in the right the other party is in the wrong.
Larry
Legendts said
08:51 PM Jul 11, 2014
If your driving you need to keep your eyes and ears tuned in. As far as reading signs, it's second nature to me from the industry I was in. All the sign does is to advise those travelling behind that you MAY need to use your lane and some of another lane, that doesn't take away from anyone their duty of care to other road users.
-- Edited by Legendts on Friday 11th of July 2014 08:52:05 PM
Glenelg said
09:15 PM Jul 11, 2014
well i am surprised, 193 at this stage had a look. there are 9 posts about this. i thought you all would have a say. maybe you can't be bothered . i would have thought everybody would be in this. sorry i may be wrong.
justcruisin01 said
09:43 PM Jul 11, 2014
Ive said it before on here;wording only on the left.Have a look at all the trucks a where is the wording??????? Only on the left.
I have fitted these in the work place to trucks,one pair of reflectors to a set,only one with wording which goes on the left only. Instructions supplied. Any thing else is illegal a only applies to left turnes.
JC.
stickers right across the rear;wording both sides are illegal
barrie said
09:47 PM Jul 11, 2014
Dave S this topic was discussed not long ago on here maybe that's why lack of response
KeenTravellers said
10:15 PM Jul 11, 2014
My other thought on this matter after reading all the posts and after fitting these to my van was
in this day and age - especially in this over regulated country of ours - that
Why isnt "All Van manufactures supplying vans over 7.5mtrs be made fit these as standard
And
Registration offices when renewing van regos - would suggest / supply information on these signs for all owners.
After reading the Rules - I thought the sole purpose of the sign fitted to the left rear was
Only for vans turning left - if they SAFELY - when the situtation required - used part of the Next right lane
to turn left from a tight left hand lane.. Turning right from the right hand lane - shouldnt be a problem?
Cheers
KT
....
Aus-Kiwi said
10:53 PM Jul 11, 2014
Car and van is not rigid 7.5m..
Baz421 said
11:02 PM Jul 11, 2014
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Car and van is not rigid 7.5m..
7.5m applies to tug and trailer length
Baz421 said
11:11 PM Jul 11, 2014
Here's section of Aust road Rules,,, section is 28 (2) SORRY ALL ITS A BIT LONG AS I COPIED IT
(2) A driver may approach and enter the intersection from the
marked lane next to the left lane as well as, or instead of, the
left lane if:
(a) the drivers vehicle, together with any load or
projection, is 7.5 metres long, or longer; and
(b) the vehicle displays a do not overtake turning vehicle
sign; and
(c) any part of the vehicle is within 50 metres of the
nearest point of the intersection; and
(d) it is not practicable for the driver to turn left from
within the left lane; and
(e) the driver can safely occupy the next marked lane and
can safely turn left at the intersection by occupying the
next marked lane, or both lanes.
Another section is 92 and refers to 28 (2)
Traffic lane arrows
(1) If a driver is driving in a marked lane at an intersection
(except a roundabout) and there are traffic lane arrows
applying to the lane, the driver must:
(a) if the arrows indicate a single direction drive in that
direction; or
(b) if the arrows indicate 2 or more directions drive in
one of those directions.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Marked lane and traffic lane arrows are defined in the
dictionary.
Note 2 Part 9 deals with traffic lane arrows at roundabouts.
Note 3 Rule 329 explains when a traffic control device applies to a
marked lane.
(2) However, this rule does not apply to a driver if:
(a) the arrows indicate a direction to the right (whether or
not they also indicate another direction) at an
intersection and the driver is making a Uturn at the
intersection; or
(b) a traffic sign indicates that the driver may drive in a
direction different to that indicated by the traffic lane
arrows; or
(c) the driver is driving in the direction indicated by traffic
lane arrows that apply to 1 or more marked lanes and
there is an obstruction in each of those lanes; or
(d) the driver is turning at an intersection in accordance
with subrule 28 (2) or 32 (2).
Note 1 Obstruction and U-turn are defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 Rules 40 and 41 deal with making a U-turn at an intersection. If
there are traffic lights at the intersection, the driver may make a U-turn
only if there is a U-turn permitted sign at the intersection. If there are
no traffic lights at the intersection, the driver may make a U-turn unless
there is a no U-turn sign at the intersection.
Aus-Kiwi said
11:16 PM Jul 11, 2014
Baz421 wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Car and van is not rigid 7.5m..
7.5m applies to tug and trailer length
Point is ?? cant do it hand your licence in..
Plendo said
11:54 PM Jul 11, 2014
An interesting collection of comments, and I think we all need to remember that we are the ones driving the long and clumsy rigs, we need to be planning ahead, and doing everything we can to remove risk (for ourselves and other) from everything we do.
The purpose of the sign is to alert people who may not be as aware as we are about the clumsiness of our larger than normal vehicles, and just to help them to realise that maybe we will not act entirely as they expect.
Regardless nothing we do absolves us of our absoloute responsibility.
Yes I have signage on the back of the van, and I reckon 999 out of every 1,000 will ignore it. BUT if it helps the 1 out of a 1,000 avoid a situation when we are turning it has been worth every cent.
Glenelg said
05:04 AM Jul 12, 2014
Very interesting guys . Thankyou.
Dougwe said
11:09 AM Jul 12, 2014
Shut the front gate!!
I reckon my new Collie with the Avan hooked up would have to be very close to being that or over. I better get the measuring stick out and check out of curiosity if nothing else now.
Dougwe said
11:14 AM Jul 12, 2014
Plendo wrote:
An interesting collection of comments, and I think we all need to remember that we are the ones driving the long and clumsy rigs, we need to be planning ahead, and doing everything we can to remove risk (for ourselves and other) from everything we do.
The purpose of the sign is to alert people who may not be as aware as we are about the clumsiness of our larger than normal vehicles, and just to help them to realise that maybe we will not act entirely as they expect.
Regardless nothing we do absolves us of our absoloute responsibility.
Yes I have signage on the back of the van, and I reckon 999 out of every 1,000 will ignore it. BUT if it helps the 1 out of a 1,000 avoid a situation when we are turning it has been worth every cent.
Agree 100% David. It is not only the tug and den combined that can be "Clumsy", some drivers can be very clumsy too. I am more concerned about the driver really. I will be checking the length of my tug and den for sure.
littledick said
01:09 PM Jul 12, 2014
barrie wrote:
Dave S this topic was discussed not long ago on here maybe that's why lack of response
This subject brought up every couple of months. It gets boring after a while.
Dick.
deverall11 said
01:17 PM Jul 12, 2014
littledick wrote:
This subject brought up every couple of months. It gets boring after a while.
Dick.
Agree and other subjects as well. Maybe the Site Admin needs to point this out and lock the thread as happens other forums.
Larry
Glenelg said
02:35 PM Jul 12, 2014
anything about safety is not boring , you don't have to read it. i don't mean to be smart here.
i think something should be permanently on here about safety when on the road, lots of newbies coming on here all the time.
Glenelg said
03:14 PM Jul 12, 2014
Have read the other post just now. i didn't ask a question . i was just pointing out what i see on the rd . nobody had to reply& i thank those that did
edit. there have been 391 look at this post so fare, if only one person has learnt something out of this well goodonem
-- Edited by Glenelg on Saturday 12th of July 2014 03:56:16 PM
Dougwe said
04:38 PM Jul 12, 2014
Agree Dave.
Also agree that if you don't like the sound of a topic slip into the next one instead.
I think Cindy and her team have enough to do than close, remove or suggest it has already been discussed.
If I don't like a person (mmm, is there any?) or sound of a thread I just don't open it as I am sure there are plenty that do that with mine. It's a free forum and we are free to move around it.
ME, I love it as it is, PLEASE DON'T CHANGE PEOPLE.
Glenelg said
05:22 PM Jul 12, 2014
thanks Doug. i dunno about you but i love the twins
Plendo said
09:32 PM Jul 12, 2014
I can not imagine ignoring peoples posts.
Does Dougwe post things ?
Zoomtopz said
06:42 AM Jul 13, 2014
you Will find , most people Don't read em anyway .
I have had people say to me when I have had "oversize"
"I thought it meant Overtake" . True .
Look at red light / speed cameras - you get warned 8 times about th speed
if you tow & your Tug plus van are over 7.5m you can put a sign on left side at back. to help you turn left without the sign it is illegal to use two or part of two lanes to turn left. with the sign on back you are covered by law, if a car comes up the left side of you and hits you so long as left indicator is on you are in the right.
i didn't know that . i suppose it makes sence
With the sign on the back it works both ways, not just left. For example if you are going round a roundabout in the left lane and overlap into the right lane.
Hi Plendo.
so what you are saying that we should have sign on both sides, that makes more sense again. i'm only asking as i 'm not on the rd yet.
am a carpet cleaner on the rd all day long it surprises me the amount of caravans & 5th wheelers don't have them signs on back.
I fitted 2on mine one left and one right I don't think it matters about the right one but hopefully there not needed.
Lance C
This from vehicle standards which may help.
General Requirements
All vehicles with a gross vehicle mass (GVM) over 12 tonnes and trailers with a gross trailer mass (GTM) over 10 tonnes must be fitted with retroreflective rear marking plates. Buses with a gross vehicle mass over 12 tonnes must also be fitted with rear marking plates but buses fitted with hand grips or similar equipment for standing passengers to hold are exempt from these requirements.
Prime mover and semi-trailer combinations must display the plates at the rear of the semi-trailer.
Rear marking plates may also be fitted to any motor vehicle with less than 12 tonnes gross vehicle mass or to any trailer with less than 10 tonnes gross trailer mass. If your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you may then also have the sign DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE displayed at the rear.
Rear marking plates may also be fitted to light vehicles. However, in certain jurisdictions if the vehicle is less than 7.5 metres long, the plates must not have the words DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE.
Australian Standards AS 4001 2003 Motor Vehicles Rear Marker Plates Parts 1 and 3 (Manufacturing requirements) and Part 2 (Fitting requirements) provides for plates made from Class 1, Class 1A and Class 2 retroreflective material. Class 1 retroreflective material is more durable and because of its improved retroreflective performance, when compared to the older Class 2 plates, the plates can be smaller and yet reflect more light. Class 1A pressure sensitive plates have been developed so that these plates can be affixed directly to the vehicle without a metal backing plate.
You may use either style provided that both plates on any one vehicle are of the same size and material. Plates complying with AS 4001 are available in either rectangular or strip configuration as illustrated in the Figures 1 and 2 respectively.
Class 1 plates are preferred because they outperform and outlast Class 2 plates.
-- Edited by Legendts on Friday 11th of July 2014 06:04:51 PM
Good Luck.
moamajohn, I think the point of the exercise is that provided the driver has done everything right and has the misfortune of some impatient dill running into him then you are probably in the clear if displaying the signs in accordance with the regulations.
Reference your stay in "The Ridge" somebody on another thread has suggested you get out to Glengarry and Grawin, great idea try not to miss it we were there two years ago and it is another world.
Try a hamburger at the Glengarry Hilton, they are the best you'll get anywhere and the beer coldest and wettest than anywhere!
Happy Travels Keith....
Larry
If your driving you need to keep your eyes and ears tuned in. As far as reading signs, it's second nature to me from the industry I was in. All the sign does is to advise those travelling behind that you MAY need to use your lane and some of another lane, that doesn't take away from anyone their duty of care to other road users.
-- Edited by Legendts on Friday 11th of July 2014 08:52:05 PM
well i am surprised, 193 at this stage had a look. there are 9 posts about this. i thought you all would have a say. maybe you can't be bothered . i would have thought everybody would be in this. sorry i may be wrong.
Ive said it before on here;wording only on the left.Have a look at all the trucks a where is the wording??????? Only on the left.
I have fitted these in the work place to trucks,one pair of reflectors to a set,only one with wording which goes on the left only. Instructions supplied. Any thing else is illegal a only applies to left turnes.
JC.
stickers right across the rear;wording both sides are illegal
in this day and age - especially in this over regulated country of ours - that
Why isnt "All Van manufactures supplying vans over 7.5mtrs be made fit these as standard
And
Registration offices when renewing van regos - would suggest / supply information on these signs for all owners.
After reading the Rules - I thought the sole purpose of the sign fitted to the left rear was
Only for vans turning left - if they SAFELY - when the situtation required - used part of the Next right lane
to turn left from a tight left hand lane.. Turning right from the right hand lane - shouldnt be a problem?
Cheers
KT
....
7.5m applies to tug and trailer length
Here's section of Aust road Rules,,, section is 28 (2) SORRY ALL ITS A BIT LONG AS I COPIED IT
(2) A driver may approach and enter the intersection from the
marked lane next to the left lane as well as, or instead of, the
left lane if:
(a) the drivers vehicle, together with any load or
projection, is 7.5 metres long, or longer; and
(b) the vehicle displays a do not overtake turning vehicle
sign; and
(c) any part of the vehicle is within 50 metres of the
nearest point of the intersection; and
(d) it is not practicable for the driver to turn left from
within the left lane; and
(e) the driver can safely occupy the next marked lane and
can safely turn left at the intersection by occupying the
next marked lane, or both lanes.
Another section is 92 and refers to 28 (2)
Traffic lane arrows
(1) If a driver is driving in a marked lane at an intersection
(except a roundabout) and there are traffic lane arrows
applying to the lane, the driver must:
(a) if the arrows indicate a single direction drive in that
direction; or
(b) if the arrows indicate 2 or more directions drive in
one of those directions.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Marked lane and traffic lane arrows are defined in the
dictionary.
Note 2 Part 9 deals with traffic lane arrows at roundabouts.
Note 3 Rule 329 explains when a traffic control device applies to a
marked lane.
(2) However, this rule does not apply to a driver if:
(a) the arrows indicate a direction to the right (whether or
not they also indicate another direction) at an
intersection and the driver is making a Uturn at the
intersection; or
(b) a traffic sign indicates that the driver may drive in a
direction different to that indicated by the traffic lane
arrows; or
(c) the driver is driving in the direction indicated by traffic
lane arrows that apply to 1 or more marked lanes and
there is an obstruction in each of those lanes; or
(d) the driver is turning at an intersection in accordance
with subrule 28 (2) or 32 (2).
Note 1 Obstruction and U-turn are defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 Rules 40 and 41 deal with making a U-turn at an intersection. If
there are traffic lights at the intersection, the driver may make a U-turn
only if there is a U-turn permitted sign at the intersection. If there are
no traffic lights at the intersection, the driver may make a U-turn unless
there is a no U-turn sign at the intersection.
Point is ?? cant do it hand your licence in..
An interesting collection of comments, and I think we all need to remember that we are the ones driving the long and clumsy rigs, we need to be planning ahead, and doing everything we can to remove risk (for ourselves and other) from everything we do.
The purpose of the sign is to alert people who may not be as aware as we are about the clumsiness of our larger than normal vehicles, and just to help them to realise that maybe we will not act entirely as they expect.
Regardless nothing we do absolves us of our absoloute responsibility.
Yes I have signage on the back of the van, and I reckon 999 out of every 1,000 will ignore it. BUT if it helps the 1 out of a 1,000 avoid a situation when we are turning it has been worth every cent.
I reckon my new Collie with the Avan hooked up would have to be very close to being that or over. I better get the measuring stick out and check out of curiosity if nothing else now.
Agree 100% David. It is not only the tug and den combined that can be "Clumsy", some drivers can be very clumsy too. I am more concerned about the driver really.
I will be checking the length of my tug and den for sure.
This subject brought up every couple of months. It gets boring after a while.
Dick.
Agree and other subjects as well. Maybe the Site Admin needs to point this out and lock the thread as happens other forums.
Larry
anything about safety is not boring , you don't have to read it. i don't mean to be smart here.
i think something should be permanently on here about safety when on the road, lots of newbies coming on here all the time.
Have read the other post just now. i didn't ask a question . i was just pointing out what i see on the rd . nobody had to reply& i thank those that did
edit. there have been 391 look at this post so fare, if only one person has learnt something out of this well goodonem
-- Edited by Glenelg on Saturday 12th of July 2014 03:56:16 PM
Also agree that if you don't like the sound of a topic slip into the next one instead.
I think Cindy and her team have enough to do than close, remove or suggest it has already been discussed.
If I don't like a person (mmm, is there any?) or sound of a thread I just don't open it as I am sure there are plenty that do that with mine. It's a free forum and we are free to move around it.
ME, I love it as it is, PLEASE DON'T CHANGE PEOPLE.
thanks Doug. i dunno about you
but i love the twins
I can not imagine ignoring peoples posts.
Does Dougwe post things ?
you Will find , most people Don't read em anyway .
I have had people say to me when I have had "oversize"
"I thought it meant Overtake" . True .
Look at red light / speed cameras - you get warned 8 times about th speed
at one , people Still get caught .