When buying a new caravan check out, gee... I don't know where to start.
Check everything, take your time to look at the quality of finish of all the cupboards and walls, look for patched / repaired panels, turn every appliance on, fill the water tanks yourself , the alignment of the door and if you find anything not up to scratch walk away as you may find a lot more that you can't see.
When the ceiling lining lets go,the wall panelling comes away, the floor starts flexing/ sqeaking and the join in the wall dividing the kitchen from the ensuite moves as well as lots of other appliance failures your heartache is just beginning.
The dealer wants you to deal with caravan manufacturer or the appliance manufacturer.
The caravan manufacturer wants you to deal with the dealer or the contractor that they used during construction, so you take the van to the dealer for an inspection and to prepare a quote for the manufacturer.
The manufacturer doesn't like that report so they organize an inspection and quote from another repairer who says the same thing (it needs to be stripped back and rebuilt) .
The transport company picking the van up damages more items on the van.
The manufacturer takes it back to Melbourne so they can assess ,strip and rebuild it.
So far the van has been taken from Gladstone, Qld to Brisbane twice for inspections and then to Melbourne.
If you ask for a refund the manufacturer states they only have to repair it and a refund should be discussed with the dealer as they sell the van to the dealer and the dealer then sells you the van.
The dealer states that a refund is not an option and the van needs to be repaired.
People have been inspecting the van for three months now and surprise surprise the manufacturer is going to inspect when they come back from their Christmas break.
The van started falling apart on the first trip......only done one trip and this was aborted due to ongoing failures.
So to sum it up, Look, look,and look again and walk away if you see anything not quite right.
Cheers, Rick
KFT said
10:26 AM Jan 4, 2014
bluddy hell Rick,
sorry to hear you are having such a hard time with a NEW van. It should not be like that.
I think if you were to consult fair trading or the ACCC, you may find it is YOUR choice of repair,refund or compensation with something like this.
for your own peace of mind(and your pocket) please check that out
frank
Cruising Cruze said
10:34 AM Jan 4, 2014
there must be a time limit in what they have to fix the van
you better look in to that at the courthouse
best of luck
Pejay said
10:43 AM Jan 4, 2014
Sounds like we may have been lucky with our new van - just a few minor bits and pieces to be adjusted when we get back home.
Our thoughts are with you Rick.
Rickp said
10:59 AM Jan 4, 2014
Hi Frank,
I have spoken to Office of Fair Trading and they said the refund is an option where it is a major fault and there are protocols that must be followed prior to them getting involved which I have done. The paperwork for OOFT has been done and will be posted next week.
What I am highlighting is people need to be aware and don,t believe all of what is said by dealers as at the end of the day they want a sale.
The van was purchased through the Brisbane Caravan and Camping show and the sales people we spoke to there stated they were from the manufacturer and not the dealer.
When the van is picked up things were not done as discussed with these Reps. The Dealer is not aware of what was said, the Manufacturer states they are not working for them ,they are freelancing although they are associated with and trained by the manufacturer.
So no-one is responsible.
This was not a budget van as we thought we would get a better quality van. Keep smiling.
Cheers, Rick
Rickp said
11:06 AM Jan 4, 2014
Thanks Guys.
Rickp said
11:07 AM Jan 4, 2014
The other option that is appealing is to give it to a rival TV station as one of them did a story on how good these vans / manufacturers are a while back.
Cheers Rick
-- Edited by Rickp on Saturday 4th of January 2014 11:27:53 AM
clarence said
11:10 AM Jan 4, 2014
SORRY RICK ABOUT YOUR HASSLES, WE HAD SIMILAR PROBS WITH A NEW MOTORHOME A WHILE BACK , PERSEVERE , THEY DID THE SAME FOR US FLICKING US FROM DEALER TO MANUFACTURER, WE PEELED THE DEALERS NAME OF THE M/HOME AND RUBBISH THEM TO WHOEVER ASK'S . JUST ENJOY YOUR VAN AND THIS GREAT COUNTRY WHEN ALL IS FIXED.
WE HIGHLY RECCOMEND JAYCO IN BUNDY FOR REPAIRS, IF YOU ARE DOWN THIS WAY.
VIC
Ontos45 said
11:37 AM Jan 4, 2014
According to Choice magazine it's the purchaser that decides if they want a refund, the item repaired or swapped. They just won a court case with Apple about this.
KFT said
11:49 AM Jan 4, 2014
Rickp wrote:
Hi Frank, I have spoken to Office of Fair Trading and they said the refund is an option where it is a major fault and there are protocols that must be followed prior to them getting involved which I have done. The paperwork for OOFT has been done and will be posted next week. What I am highlighting is people need to be aware and don,t believe all of what is said by dealers as at the end of the day they want a sale. The van was purchased through the Brisbane Caravan and Camping show and the sales people we spoke to there stated they were from the manufacturer and not the dealer. When the van is picked up things were not done as discussed with these Reps. The Dealer is not aware of what was said, the Manufacturer states they are not working for them ,they are freelancing although they are associated with and trained by the manufacturer. So no-one is responsible. This was not a budget van as we thought we would get a better quality van. Keep smiling. Cheers, Rick
Rick from what you described in your original post I would think was a major fault in construction!
the term "fitness for purpose" comes to mind. If the item is not then a refund is appropriate IMHO.
I see you are aware and have taken the right steps so I can only wish you good luck and hope for you the outcome is favourable.
please keep us informed of your progress or lack of.
frank
Cruising Cruze said
12:02 PM Jan 4, 2014
Maybe a reminder for all of us
whenever you buy something get all the in's and out's in black and white on a signed piece of paper
I feel sorry for you Rick
oldbobsbus said
12:46 PM Jan 4, 2014
In this day and age I wonder how things like this even get past the assembly stage...
You haven't indicated what brand of van it is but I am assuming it isn't one of the better known brands as their quality control would prevent things like this happening..
I know many Jayco owners that have had problems but to Jaycos credit they were quick to have the problems fixed..
I sure hope you are able to sort this whole mess out mate..
Roving-Dutchy said
01:37 PM Jan 4, 2014
With all the bad stories I have heard about new vans, buying a better known brand, is no guarantee that you will not have major problems, I am glad I am not in the market for a new van, If I was buying, the only van I would consider, would be an Evernew, have never yet met, a disgruntled Evernew owner.
Cheers
David
signwilson said
03:43 PM Jan 4, 2014
We had a similar problem when we bought our limited edition compass in 2004. just before they went broke. We went to the caravan and camping show in Brisbane and stood out side the Compass stand and told everybody that came passed what rubbish they where. We were immediately met by the owners and reimbursed for our repairs. They also supplied coffee and cake worked for us
deverall11 said
04:25 PM Jan 4, 2014
Rick, sorry to hear about your disappointment. We had a similar experience with so called dealer. We made so much noise, the manufacturer agreed to deal with us directly and bypass the dealer altogether.
We are new to this forum and not sure about all the rules here.
We are also on the LandCruiser Owners Online forum (LCOOL.ORG), and we can name people we were not happy with. If this is OK to do so here, please name the manufacturer and the dealer.
It's about time some of these jerks appreciated the power of the 'word of mouth'
Thank you,
Larry
PS: Our van is a Panorama made by Ranger Caravans. They have gone bust now. No wonders.
Rickp said
11:27 PM Jan 4, 2014
Hi , I purposely haven't named the brand of van or dealer.
It is not a new brand and I have met people who have had theirs for a couple of years and are very happy with theirs.
I have also met people that have purchased their van that was built at a similar time as mine was made and they have shown me things that had gone wrong with theirs and couldn't wait to get back to get the faults fixed.
At the time I didn't have the same faults but a few days later the same faults became obvious on ours as well.
I am guessing the manufacturer has got the wrong people working for them as they promote themselves as builders of high quality vans but there is no excuse for the dealer or manufacturer dodging responsibility for others working for them whether they are direct employees or contractors performing tasks or supplying components to them.
Cheers, Rick
johnq said
08:00 AM Jan 5, 2014
Like some here I was buying new vans, usually around 22', years ago (Seventies and Eighties).
I am astounded if anyone imagines the vans are better now than then. True there are better materials and construction techniques available, better sealants too. However there are still the same leaks, poor (slap-dash) insulation, airflow problems for fridges, shabby doors and so on.
The government regulators are a joke and diplomats for entrepreneurs. At minimum, every new van should meet the Australian Standard and parts manufacturers' use and installation instructions. It must be obligatory because self regulation doesn't work. Until we as a group protest that to government nothing will change.
I should add that almost all of the big name vans I ever bought leaked somewhere. That was not always apparent until the van was slightly off level or on the road and water tested the cheap and poorly applied sealants. Although intelligent design can often obviate the need for sealants, which would be preferable.
Manufacturers have been getting away with their stated limited warranty. If anyone considers the cost and implied use of caravans and then reads the Choice article mentioned above, they will soon realise that many van manufacturers have been taking consumers for a ride, and not a good one either.
Regrettably my wife has done an about turn on the travel plans we discussed for years, but the silver lining is that I am now unlikely to buy a new, larger van as we had proposed.
_wombat_ said
08:11 AM Jan 5, 2014
you have done the right thing, Fair Trading will sort this out and for anybody else having problems with any product don't forget even if your warrantee has expired you can still claim your consumer rights, in the very first instance you need to write a letter to the company explaining what is wrong and what you want done about it, register the letter, and in the letter give them 14 days to give you their decision, also tell them after this 14 day limit you will be in contact with the ACCC if you have not heard from them.
A good site to read is www.accc.gov.au or you can phone them on 1300 302 502 they will give you advice on what steps to take, the first being write a letter to the company.
PS make sure you get their decision in writing, ie in your letter ask for a reply in writing, DO NOT talk to them on the phone, get everything in writing.
-- Edited by _wombat_ on Sunday 5th of January 2014 08:15:13 AM
banjo said
08:27 AM Jan 5, 2014
Rickp
We feel for you, been there done that ! We too bought our dream upmarket caravan, we'd had two smaller Jayco's and needed something bigger to live more permanently on the road so we took the plunge after being partially blinded by "Bling" at one of the caravan shows. It was not a jayco I might add.
It was a disaster from day one, and the van spent more time at the dealers than with us ! eventually the dealer decided they could do no more and told me to take it back to the manufacturer, but at our cost ! We live in WA, caravan manufacturer was in Camblefield Vic. !
I stood my ground and luckily the dealer not wanting further aggro from me came to the party and offered me a new different manufactured van using the lemon as payment, ( I had threatened to camp outside his gates till something was done.)
We were lucky, there are lots more out there struggling with shonky products, what makes my blood boil is when one hears glowing reports of how good this manufacturer and his products are, yet we were treated like lepers after they had our $68K !
The manufacturer in question would not even speak to me on the phone and kept telling me to deal with the dealer, yet the dealer was incapable of repairing the van as it needed a virtual rebuild ! so around it went for almost 6 months !
_wombat_ said
08:38 AM Jan 5, 2014
banjo wrote:
Rickp
We feel for you, been there done that ! We too bought our dream upmarket caravan, we'd had two smaller Jayco's and needed something bigger to live more permanently on the road so we took the plunge after being partially blinded by "Bling" at one of the caravan shows. It was not a jayco I might add.
It was a disaster from day one, and the van spent more time at the dealers than with us ! eventually the dealer decided they could do no more and told me to take it back to the manufacturer, but at our cost ! We live in WA, caravan manufacturer was in Camblefield Vic. !
I stood my ground and luckily the dealer not wanting further aggro from me came to the party and offered me a new different manufactured van using the lemon as payment, ( I had threatened to camp outside his gates till something was done.)
We were lucky, there are lots more out there struggling with shonky products, what makes my blood boil is when one hears glowing reports of how good this manufacturer and his products are, yet we were treated like lepers after they had our $68K !
The manufacturer in question would not even speak to me on the phone and kept telling me to deal with the dealer, yet the dealer was incapable of repairing the van as it needed a virtual rebuild ! so around it went for almost 6 months !
in ANY dispute NEVER talk on the phone ALWAYS get it in writing
03_troopy said
08:50 AM Jan 5, 2014
We bought a pop top van privately about 6 months ago from a dear older single lady. It is a 2011 model, and apart from some minor faults to trim and the hot water unit being removed because it failed during her one big trip from the east coast to the west coast, it looked in pretty good condition. The one obvious place I didn't check was the roof however, which had a long scratch mark ending in a gouge about 400mm long. This had been painted over so she obviously knew about it, and it was very dumb of me not to inspect the roof as well. We didn't realise it until a few months later when we had some heavy rain and the ceiling became wet in one area with some slight bubbling of the vinyl coating of the sheeting. Being a private sale there is no warranty either.
So don't even trust a little old lady who only drove from go to woah on a saturday.
Ontos45 said
11:26 AM Jan 5, 2014
Let the buyer beware!
banjo said
01:46 PM Jan 5, 2014
Ontos45 wrote:
Let the buyer beware!
Do agree but when first purchased our lemon did not show up the first major fault till we did our first trip ! I am a fairly astute person and being an ex tradesman have an eye for detail, its the things under the skin that cannot be seen until it rains, or worse when something falls off that shouldn't !
_wombat_ said
02:51 PM Jan 5, 2014
Anybody Making a purchase second hand would be advised to get a caravan engineer to go over the van IMHO
deverall11 said
04:38 PM Jan 5, 2014
Rick, I am disappointed that you are not willing to name the dealer and manufacturer. Not wanting to offend you, but I fail to see the purpose of your posting other than getting people to feel sorry for you. I am sure most of us do, and this is why I feel we need to know the parties involved so that we can make an educated decision as to whether or not to deal with them. Also, whilst you say 'Buyer Beware', how can we beware of a bad dealer/manufacturer if we do not know who it is. We can all beware to a certain extent when buying a van or whatever.
Regards,
Larry
Gerty Dancer said
04:44 PM Jan 5, 2014
Deverall, this has been discussed at length previously, and basically it comes down to the possibility of the Forum owners being subject to legal action. If you want to know the details you can ask by private message.
-- Edited by Gerty Dancer on Sunday 5th of January 2014 05:05:15 PM
deverall11 said
05:04 PM Jan 5, 2014
Thank you Rosie, I understand that. I guess my point is I do not want to have to go through what Rick did if it can be prevented. I will PM Rick.
Larry
Wirroff said
05:05 PM Jan 5, 2014
Caravan dealers mate! Same box as car dealers and real estate agents in my book!
deverall11 said
05:16 PM Jan 5, 2014
Well said Wirroff!
_wombat_ said
05:47 PM Jan 5, 2014
Wirroff wrote:
Caravan dealers mate! Same box as car dealers and real estate agents in my book!
IMHO you have them around the wrong way, real estate agents and then car dealers.
When buying a new caravan check out, gee... I don't know where to start.
Check everything, take your time to look at the quality of finish of all the cupboards and walls, look for patched / repaired panels, turn every appliance on, fill the water tanks yourself , the alignment of the door and if you find anything not up to scratch walk away as you may find a lot more that you can't see.
When the ceiling lining lets go,the wall panelling comes away, the floor starts flexing/ sqeaking and the join in the wall dividing the kitchen from the ensuite moves as well as lots of other appliance failures your heartache is just beginning.
The dealer wants you to deal with caravan manufacturer or the appliance manufacturer.
The caravan manufacturer wants you to deal with the dealer or the contractor that they used during construction, so you take the van to the dealer for an inspection and to prepare a quote for the manufacturer.
The manufacturer doesn't like that report so they organize an inspection and quote from another repairer who says the same thing (it needs to be stripped back and rebuilt) .
The transport company picking the van up damages more items on the van.
The manufacturer takes it back to Melbourne so they can assess ,strip and rebuild it.
So far the van has been taken from Gladstone, Qld to Brisbane twice for inspections and then to Melbourne.
If you ask for a refund the manufacturer states they only have to repair it and a refund should be discussed with the dealer as they sell the van to the dealer and the dealer then sells you the van.
The dealer states that a refund is not an option and the van needs to be repaired.
People have been inspecting the van for three months now and surprise surprise the manufacturer is going to inspect when they come back from their Christmas break.
The van started falling apart on the first trip......only done one trip and this was aborted due to ongoing failures.
So to sum it up, Look, look,and look again and walk away if you see anything not quite right.
Cheers, Rick
sorry to hear you are having such a hard time with a NEW van. It should not be like that.
I think if you were to consult fair trading or the ACCC, you may find it is YOUR choice of repair,refund or compensation with something like this.
for your own peace of mind(and your pocket) please check that out
frank
you better look in to that at the courthouse
best of luck
Our thoughts are with you Rick.
I have spoken to Office of Fair Trading and they said the refund is an option where it is a major fault and there are protocols that must be followed prior to them getting involved which I have done. The paperwork for OOFT has been done and will be posted next week.
What I am highlighting is people need to be aware and don,t believe all of what is said by dealers as at the end of the day they want a sale.
The van was purchased through the Brisbane Caravan and Camping show and the sales people we spoke to there stated they were from the manufacturer and not the dealer.
When the van is picked up things were not done as discussed with these Reps. The Dealer is not aware of what was said, the Manufacturer states they are not working for them ,they are freelancing although they are associated with and trained by the manufacturer.
So no-one is responsible.
This was not a budget van as we thought we would get a better quality van. Keep smiling.
Cheers, Rick
Thanks Guys.
The other option that is appealing is to give it to a rival TV station as one of them did a story on how good these vans / manufacturers are a while back.
Cheers Rick
-- Edited by Rickp on Saturday 4th of January 2014 11:27:53 AM
WE HIGHLY RECCOMEND JAYCO IN BUNDY FOR REPAIRS, IF YOU ARE DOWN THIS WAY.
VIC
Rick from what you described in your original post I would think was a major fault in construction!
the term "fitness for purpose" comes to mind. If the item is not then a refund is appropriate IMHO.
I see you are aware and have taken the right steps so I can only wish you good luck and hope for you the outcome is favourable.
please keep us informed of your progress or lack of.
frank
whenever you buy something get all the in's and out's in black and white on a signed piece of paper
I feel sorry for you Rick
In this day and age I wonder how things like this even get past the assembly stage...
You haven't indicated what brand of van it is but I am assuming it isn't one of the better known brands as their quality control would prevent things like this happening..
I know many Jayco owners that have had problems but to Jaycos credit they were quick to have the problems fixed..
I sure hope you are able to sort this whole mess out mate..
Cheers
David
We are new to this forum and not sure about all the rules here.
We are also on the LandCruiser Owners Online forum (LCOOL.ORG), and we can name people we were not happy with. If this is OK to do so here, please name the manufacturer and the dealer.
It's about time some of these jerks appreciated the power of the 'word of mouth'
Thank you,
Larry
PS: Our van is a Panorama made by Ranger Caravans. They have gone bust now. No wonders.
Hi , I purposely haven't named the brand of van or dealer.
It is not a new brand and I have met people who have had theirs for a couple of years and are very happy with theirs.
I have also met people that have purchased their van that was built at a similar time as mine was made and they have shown me things that had gone wrong with theirs and couldn't wait to get back to get the faults fixed.
At the time I didn't have the same faults but a few days later the same faults became obvious on ours as well.
I am guessing the manufacturer has got the wrong people working for them as they promote themselves as builders of high quality vans but there is no excuse for the dealer or manufacturer dodging responsibility for others working for them whether they are direct employees or contractors performing tasks or supplying components to them.
Cheers, Rick
I am astounded if anyone imagines the vans are better now than then. True there are better materials and construction techniques available, better sealants too. However there are still the same leaks, poor (slap-dash) insulation, airflow problems for fridges, shabby doors and so on.
The government regulators are a joke and diplomats for entrepreneurs. At minimum, every new van should meet the Australian Standard and parts manufacturers' use and installation instructions. It must be obligatory because self regulation doesn't work. Until we as a group protest that to government nothing will change.
I should add that almost all of the big name vans I ever bought leaked somewhere. That was not always apparent until the van was slightly off level or on the road and water tested the cheap and poorly applied sealants. Although intelligent design can often obviate the need for sealants, which would be preferable.
Manufacturers have been getting away with their stated limited warranty. If anyone considers the cost and implied use of caravans and then reads the Choice article mentioned above, they will soon realise that many van manufacturers have been taking consumers for a ride, and not a good one either.
Regrettably my wife has done an about turn on the travel plans we discussed for years, but the silver lining is that I am now unlikely to buy a new, larger van as we had proposed.
you have done the right thing, Fair Trading will sort this out and for anybody else having problems with any product don't forget even if your warrantee has expired you can still claim your consumer rights, in the very first instance you need to write a letter to the company explaining what is wrong and what you want done about it, register the letter, and in the letter give them 14 days to give you their decision, also tell them after this 14 day limit you will be in contact with the ACCC if you have not heard from them.
A good site to read is www.accc.gov.au or you can phone them on 1300 302 502 they will give you advice on what steps to take, the first being write a letter to the company.
PS make sure you get their decision in writing, ie in your letter ask for a reply in writing, DO NOT talk to them on the phone, get everything in writing.
-- Edited by _wombat_ on Sunday 5th of January 2014 08:15:13 AM
We feel for you, been there done that ! We too bought our dream upmarket caravan, we'd had two smaller Jayco's and needed something bigger to live more permanently on the road so we took the plunge after being partially blinded by "Bling" at one of the caravan shows. It was not a jayco I might add.
It was a disaster from day one, and the van spent more time at the dealers than with us ! eventually the dealer decided they could do no more and told me to take it back to the manufacturer, but at our cost ! We live in WA, caravan manufacturer was in Camblefield Vic. !
I stood my ground and luckily the dealer not wanting further aggro from me came to the party and offered me a new different manufactured van using the lemon as payment, ( I had threatened to camp outside his gates till something was done.)
We were lucky, there are lots more out there struggling with shonky products, what makes my blood boil is when one hears glowing reports of how good this manufacturer and his products are, yet we were treated like lepers after they had our $68K !
The manufacturer in question would not even speak to me on the phone and kept telling me to deal with the dealer, yet the dealer was incapable of repairing the van as it needed a virtual rebuild ! so around it went for almost 6 months !
in ANY dispute NEVER talk on the phone ALWAYS get it in writing
So don't even trust a little old lady who only drove from go to woah on a saturday.
Do agree but when first purchased our lemon did not show up the first major fault till we did our first trip ! I am a fairly astute person and being an ex tradesman have an eye for detail, its the things under the skin that cannot be seen until it rains, or worse when something falls off that shouldn't !
Anybody Making a purchase second hand would be advised to get a caravan engineer to go over the van IMHO
Regards,
Larry
Deverall, this has been discussed at length previously, and basically it comes down to the possibility of the Forum owners being subject to legal action.
If you want to know the details you can ask by private message.
-- Edited by Gerty Dancer on Sunday 5th of January 2014 05:05:15 PM
Thank you Rosie, I understand that. I guess my point is I do not want to have to go through what Rick did if it can be prevented. I will PM Rick.
Larry
Caravan dealers mate! Same box as car dealers and real estate agents in my book!
IMHO you have them around the wrong way, real estate agents and then car dealers.