Gday...

This statement does not require any acknowledgement - simply make sure every male you know is aware of it.

Cheers - John

<There are times I am embarrassed being male....>

I am embarrassed by those who blame a gender and not the real offenders. Since when did being born male render one to be a potential rapist and molester of girls?

Let us be very, very clear, the number of people who commit offences, and especially crimes against people, are a small section of the community. Many if not most are repeat offenders. To insinuate that men and boys are by nature, ie born or otherwise disposed to commit violence against other people, is absolute codswhallop. It offends the millions of sons, fathers, boy friends and males generally who would never hurt anyone intentionally and who care, nurture and defend.

That poster is undoubtedly from overseas. Because while I cannot comment on the country concerned, it is a fact that Australian courts do not accept that excuse. It is misleading.

It is also a fact that many unreported sex crimes and particularly rape are committed against males. Authorities have been encouraged by societal attitudes to disregard and even disbelieve complaints made by men. One hopes that the Royal Commission into Child Abuse will raise the curtain on such offences committed against children, and including boys at long last.

Demonising boys and men as callous, sex-crazed, potential rapists is Eighties radical/lesbian feminism. Most feminists were embarrassed by them then, and now the rads are disregarded as counter-productive dinosaurs, in a rut.

I am not embarrassed to be a man. My sons are good men. My father and his father and his father before him were good men. My friends are good men. I do not apologise for any of them. I am very proud of them.

[edited for a misspell]

So too there are many good women than bad uns.

Imagine if all women had to sign a pledge that they will not be child neglectors.

Or that women should be made to feel responsible and embarrassed by those who are.

It is quite apparent that boys and young men are being harmed by the relentless negative stereotyping. Speaking directly of Australia now, we do not have an enviable record for male self-harm, under-achievement at school and suicide.

It is not a matter of gender, except for those who earn their daily bread making it seem so.

I should add that from the tone of his posts on here I do not believe that the original poster should feel embarrassed at all.  My criticisms are directed at the very clever and insidious campaign against men that could make a man feel embarrassed by what a criminal has done.  Boys and men have been strongly sledged for years to apologise and feel responsible.  But for what, specifically?  For being the protectors, earners, carers and (very often) for not caring about their own wellbeing in the process?  Maybe we should be communicating something very different to the men in our lives and (for men) when we think of ourselves.

Rip and Rosie wrote:

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Not one of you men have ever felt fear at walking down the street.

While you can throw child sexual abuse, and female initiated abuse into the argument, let us be clear that many many women are not safe on our streets.

Ask Jill Maher.

Ask Anita Coby.

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Any street where a woman does not feel safe is also unsafe for men.

If you really want to argue numbers it is men who suffer the most assaults.  That is by a large margin.  It is not because they seek it either, just as the victim of sexual molestation has not sought to be a victim.

But none of that is the point is it?  The point is that we the ordinary law-abiding citizens, women and men, are affected by violence.  Making it into a gender war does nothing to help and it is counter productive to do so.

The monkey is not on the backs of all men for Jill Meagher.  Her grief-stricken husband should not feel guilty because he is a man.  Presumably you would denounce anyone who (say) blamed all Muslims for the bombings of the few, yet you would see nothing wrong in blaming men for Jill Maegher.

GaryKelly wrote:

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There's never an excuse for rape. Period.

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 I'm going to leave that right alone!

There is GOOD and BAD in all walks of life.

Grams wrote:

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.................... I am not stereotyping males are all bad, and no one on here has, there are a few I would torture if I could. ................... 

Lynn

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 same here

Gday...

I have refrained from comment since I posted that photo (and was not going to respond) as everyone has their right to their opinion and view on life. I have been reading the 'acknowledgements' I really did not think were needed. It would appear, in varying ways, all support the intent of the post.

The whole point of the post was that ALL men (in fact, ALL society in ALL parts of the world) should realise there is NO excuse EVER for violence (whether physical or emotional) against women.

Perhaps, I should have said "Please make sure each of you take the responsibility to never condone any excuse by any person for violence against a woman" rather than "... simply make sure every male you know is aware of it."

In each posters response I think the intent of the photo has been reflected - so, as good-thinking, good-living people, along with our resolve to tell other campers when they are filthy by dumping rubbish and effluent, and not paying their donations etc at camping sites - let us also be as dogmatic to make sure violence against women is seen as the hideous, gutless, cowardly, obnoxious thing it is and is never acceptable.

Cheers - sermon endeth, so let's all get back to enjoying travelling - John

Rip and Rosie wrote:

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Not one of you men have ever felt fear at walking down the street.

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 What survey did that come from?

This item on male rape (mostly committed by other males) is interesting;

http://www.aboutdaterape.nsw.gov.au/finding_help/guys_victims.html 

 http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/pubs/wrap/w2.html 

By the way, male or female ejaculation is a body reflex and does not mean you have consented to sex or enjoyed it according to researchers.

I was engaged once to a nurse that had been raped, she had been forced into her car at night from behind as she was leaving after a night shift, a knife was held at her throat.   She was taken to a remote paddock, stripped, made to perform oral sex with a knife to her throat and penetrated etc.

She told me that despite fearing for her life, she had an orgasm.   The perpetrator was a criminal on parole.  Later he was again release on parole and this time committed rape while armed with a gun.   So much for our justice system.

GaryKelly wrote:

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Rip and Rosie wrote:

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Not one of you men have ever felt fear at walking down the street.

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 What survey did that come from?

---

 London, United Kingdom: In a poll conducted by the Ending Violence Against Women (EVAW) Coalition in London, 43 percent of young women ages 18-34 had experienced street harassment just during the past year alone. The total sample size was 1047 adults and the poll was conducted in early March 2012. 

 Indianapolis, USA: In one of the first street harassment studies ever conducted, Carol Brooks Gardner, associate professor of sociology and womens studies at Indiana University, Indianapolis, interviewed 293 women in Indianapolis, Indiana, over several years in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The women were from every race, age, class, and sexual orientation category of the general population in Indiana and the United States. Gardner found that every single woman (100 percent) could cite several examples of being harassed by unknown men in public and all but nine of the women classified those experiences as troublesome. 

Canada: Using a national sample of 12,300 Canadian women ages 18 and older from 1994, sociology professors Ross Macmillan, Annette Nierobisz, and Sandy Welsh studied the impact of street harassment on womens perceived sense of safety in 2000. During their research, they found that over 80 percent of the women surveyed had experienced male stranger harassment in public and that those experiences had a large and detrimental impact on their perceived safety in public.

United States: Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates conducted a nationally representative telephone survey of 612 adult women between June 17 and June 19, 2000. From this survey, they found that almost all women had experienced street harassment: 87 percent of American women between the ages of 18-64 had been harassed by a male stranger; and over one half of them experienced extreme harassment including being touched, grabbed, rubbed, brushed or followed by a strange man on the street or other public place. Shattering the myth that street harassment is an urban problem, the survey found that women in all areas experienced it: 90 percent in rural areas, 88 percent in suburban areas, and 87 percent in urban areas. Sadly, 84 percent of women consider changing their behavior to avoid street harassment.

To name a few

johnq wrote:

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~~~SNIP~~~
 It is grossly unfair, wrong and reprehensible that boys and men are being made to feel responsible for criminal behaviour they could never support, would never dream of doing themselves and do their very best to protect their loved ones and themselves from?

Why is it so necessary to delegitimise and pathologise a whole gender? It is unprincipled. Who gains from that?

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 Gday...

Perhaps, as the originator of this discussion, I suggest your comment above is not what the point of the post was ... it was not meant to, in any way, denigrate the male gender, but was simply meant to reinforce the following comment I made later :-

 "Please make sure each of you take the responsibility to never condone any excuse by any person for violence against a woman"

It was not the intention to have generated, and aggravated, your point of view. However, too many men do have the feeling that "she was asking for it!" as their defence - we can only change that point of view by ensuring the counter view is represented - just like the "drink and drive - bloody idiot" campaign is slowly changing the "she'll be right mate" attitude to drink driving.

Anyway - once again - let's all get back to enjoying travelling - John

Gday...

 I guess there is nothing further each of us can say then ...

Cheers - John

Rip and Rosie wrote:

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GaryKelly wrote:

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Rip and Rosie wrote:

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Not one of you men have ever felt fear at walking down the street.

---

 What survey did that come from?

---

 London, United Kingdom: In a poll conducted by the Ending Violence Against Women (EVAW) Coalition in London, 43 percent of young women ages 18-34 had experienced street harassment just during the past year alone. The total sample size was 1047 adults and the poll was conducted in early March 2012. 

 Indianapolis, USA: In one of the first street harassment studies ever conducted, Carol Brooks Gardner, associate professor of sociology and womens studies at Indiana University, Indianapolis, interviewed 293 women in Indianapolis, Indiana, over several years in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The women were from every race, age, class, and sexual orientation category of the general population in Indiana and the United States. Gardner found that every single woman (100 percent) could cite several examples of being harassed by unknown men in public and all but nine of the women classified those experiences as troublesome. 

Canada: Using a national sample of 12,300 Canadian women ages 18 and older from 1994, sociology professors Ross Macmillan, Annette Nierobisz, and Sandy Welsh studied the impact of street harassment on womens perceived sense of safety in 2000. During their research, they found that over 80 percent of the women surveyed had experienced male stranger harassment in public and that those experiences had a large and detrimental impact on their perceived safety in public.

United States: Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates conducted a nationally representative telephone survey of 612 adult women between June 17 and June 19, 2000. From this survey, they found that almost all women had experienced street harassment: 87 percent of American women between the ages of 18-64 had been harassed by a male stranger; and over one half of them experienced extreme harassment including being touched, grabbed, rubbed, brushed or followed by a strange man on the street or other public place. Shattering the myth that street harassment is an urban problem, the survey found that women in all areas experienced it: 90 percent in rural areas, 88 percent in suburban areas, and 87 percent in urban areas. Sadly, 84 percent of women consider changing their behavior to avoid street harassment.

 

 

To name a few

 

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 You could teach the government spin doctors a few tricks. If only women were surveyed about being harassed while walking down streets, the results won't show any incidents of males being harassed. Of course males are harassed while walking down the street, and in most cases stand a bigger chance of ending up a victim of violence than women. But all this has bugger all to do with the picture.

@Rockylizard - The photo (one of many similar photos) is a sad statement/protest about a crime that happened in India back in December last year, where the victim was gang raped on a bus and subsequently died. My being a male in no way makes me complicit to the crime so I have no reason to feel embarassed about my gender. (feel free to continue yourself though)

The story and similar pics cause much the same reactions in the many different forums when it first appeared online.

Rip and Rosie wrote in part:

"..........Sadly, 84 percent of women consider changing their behavior to avoid street harassment......."

Isn't this part of the crux of the matter? I don't have to change to my circumstances, everyone else has to change! To me, bikinis are for the beach not the street and hip hugging jeans are for parties not shopping mails, Or are we so insulated now by pictures from "Walmart" we don't recognise bad taste? I am male and when in a new location, both in Oz and overseas, do not dress  or act in a manor that attracts attention from undesirable elements. I change my behaviour to suit the environment I'm in.

Some of the comments on here seem to suggest that many of you have never lived in an environment where YOU have to be responsible for your own actions. Many of the assaults committed up my way (Rockhampton) are committed by youth gangs comprising both male and females and against older Aussies at home and at ATM's. So, we have to change as do women, not blame others and quote surveys as if they are going to change society.

As already said, harassment against women should not be tolerated in any society, but, it happens, so be prepared for it!

Peter