Hi All, my 1200 watt inverter can't get the mixing blade in my 650 watt bread maker turning - it just sits there and groans. Why is this? Its the beginning of the mixing part not even using the heating element yet.
W1
2foot6 said
05:09 PM May 20, 2013
Hi W1, is your inverter pure sine wave(psw) or modified sine wave(msw)?.Some appliances due to design and electronic control systems do not like msw,they will just buzz and vibrate on msw. cheers Peter.
Wild1 said
05:53 PM May 20, 2013
Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to reply.
Its a modified sine wave inverter - I thought they could handle anything outside of computer chip electronics.
Jennifer
2foot6 said
09:01 PM May 20, 2013
Hi W1 ,probably the best thing to do,is try the bread maker on another inverter (PSW)the next time you can access one .See what the results are,i think you will find it will work for a while until the batteries become discharged.(it will be a heavy load on batteries once the element kicks in ) cheers peter
-- Edited by 2foot6 on Monday 20th of May 2013 09:02:09 PM
jimricho said
03:23 AM May 21, 2013
Breadmakers have electronic controllers and as suggested by Peter may not like MSW inverters. Also motors (and many other devices too) require significantly greater currents very briefly to start. An inverter of that size needs very heavy and very short leads between the battery and the inverter input to reduce voltage drop and enable the inverter to achieve its full output.
Any one or all of the above may or may not be contributing to the problem.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:17 AM May 21, 2013
We run a bread maker on a 1300W PSW inverter in the OKA. Uses about 30Ah to bake a loaf and draws a max 40A (approx) at 12V.
Cheers, Peter
jimricho said
01:09 PM May 21, 2013
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
We run a bread maker on a 1300W PSW inverter in the OKA. Uses about 30Ah to bake a loaf and draws a max 40A (approx) at 12V.
Cheers, Peter
That OKA must be a power station on wheels!
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:03 AM May 22, 2013
jimricho wrote:
That OKA must be a power station on wheels!
600W of solar and 460Ah of house batteries helps :)
Cheers,
Peter
dorian said
08:53 AM May 22, 2013
Here are some service manuals that may give an insight into the workings of typical breadmaker:
The power consumption specs for the SBM-201 are 100W for the main motor and 470W for the heater. Therefore it does appear to be an issue with waveshape rather than available power.
-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 22nd of May 2013 08:54:14 AM
-- Edited by Sheba on Wednesday 22nd of May 2013 08:57:04 PM
Wild1 said
09:02 PM May 22, 2013
Thanks Peter, Jim and Dorian for all your help, don't know if I could survive without my crusty home cooked bread!
Jennifer
jimricho said
02:02 AM May 24, 2013
Wild1 wrote:
Thanks Peter, Jim and Dorian for all your help, don't know if I could survive without my crusty home cooked bread!
Jennifer
It's not going to be easy! Last year I stayed for several weeks on an unpowered site at a campground that fortunately had power available in the laundry (I use the term loosely as there were no machines but several power points). I snuck the breadmaker over to the laundry at night, put it on timer, and collected it next morning.
Whatever you do don't inflict your tastebuds with that mushy crap that purports to be bread that's sold in supermarkets! Vietnamese owned bakeries often do nice bread (they were taught by the French).
Jim
PS: I use good quality breadmaking flour (quarter white, three quarters wholemeal) and no improver additives. I have used Lauke mixes and find these make nice bread.
Grams said
05:19 PM May 24, 2013
If you make it the old fashioned way, you wouldn't need to use a bread maker. To make it rise, put it in a baking dish, cover with a tea towel and put it in your car with all the windows up (in the sun of course) and just bake in the oven after. Makes better bread than those bread makers.
neilnruth said
05:07 AM May 25, 2013
Hear hear Grams. And the man power needded to knead it will warm you up at the same time. Makes good thin pizza bases too.
Grams said
05:54 PM May 25, 2013
So true...the old ways are sometimes better :)
jimricho said
12:45 AM May 26, 2013
Grams wrote:
If you make it the old fashioned way, you wouldn't need to use a bread maker. To make it rise, put it in a baking dish, cover with a tea towel and put it in your car with all the windows up (in the sun of course) and just bake in the oven after. Makes better bread than those bread makers.
How often do you do this? Every day? Every second day?
Trotsky said
02:29 AM May 26, 2013
Best guess without seeing the setup is the power source. Either the battery or the leads to the invertor. If the cables aren't correctly sized then you probably won't generate the power required on the 240V side.
Grams said
03:20 AM May 26, 2013
Jim, just whenever I feel like doing it. I buy bread sometimes, and make my own others.
jimricho said
03:25 PM May 26, 2013
I have hand-made bread from time to time, sometimes from "scratch", other times by using the dough cycle on the machine, usually to make baguette style loaves to take to barbecues, lunches etc.
I bake up to two-three times a week and as this is (almost) my only source of bread I find the convenience of the breadmaker a big advantage and usually use the timer function by loading the machine at night and having fresh bread next morning. (no wonder I'm a bit overweight!)
Wild1 said
01:10 AM May 28, 2013
Hi all, well Grams, I've done it both ways but once you get the hang of using a decent bread making machine you'll wonder why on earth you put yourself to so much trouble when they can turn out a very superior loaf. I always use Laucke bread mix and swear by it - so like jimricho, if I have to wait until I have access to a power point on site then so be it! Besides I have an intense dislike of putting my hands into dough, ughh.
Thanks Trotsky, for that little insight, I'm sure when the inverter was installed that I insisted that the wiring was the correct gauge for just this reason, but not knowing about such things, I don't know if it was done. I will definitely talk to my auto sparky about this when I see him later this week.
Jennifer
Wild1 said
01:12 AM May 28, 2013
Hi Jim, I know you've been asked a hundred times before, but what does that bit of Latin say on the bottom your posts?
Jennifer
jimricho said
01:20 AM May 28, 2013
it's a tongue in cheek motto!
Hint: "merda tauris" alludes to the output of the rear end of a male bovine!
jimricho said
02:03 AM May 28, 2013
A 1200 watt inverter needs to be located very close to the battery. The short leads that come with these inverters is an indicator of this and in an optimal installation these would connect directly to the battery terminals. If using two batteries connected (in parallel) the interconnecting cables between the batteries should be as short as possible and very heavy gauge, like starter motor size gauge. One wire from from the inverter should be connected to the appropriate terminal of one battery and the other wire to the appropriate terminal of the other battery. This is to ensure the current is drawn evenly from both batteries.
It may be that if your existing inverter were re-installed this way that it may do the job however this could depend on the other factors mentioned in the thread.
Grams said
05:21 AM May 28, 2013
Wild1 wrote:
Hi all, well Grams, I've done it both ways but once you get the hang of using a decent bread making machine you'll wonder why on earth you put yourself to so much trouble when they can turn out a very superior loaf. I always use Laucke bread mix and swear by it - so like jimricho, if I have to wait until I have access to a power point on site then so be it! Besides I have an intense dislike of putting my hands into dough, ughh.
Thanks Trotsky, for that little insight, I'm sure when the inverter was installed that I insisted that the wiring was the correct gauge for just this reason, but not knowing about such things, I don't know if it was done. I will definitely talk to my auto sparky about this when I see him later this week.
Jennifer
I have a very good bread maker collecting dust in my cupboard. Yes it's easier to make the bread, but I hate the taste of bread made from these machines. I prefer the taste of proper bread made by hand.
rockylizard said
05:04 PM May 28, 2013
Wild1 wrote:
Hi Jim, I know you've been asked a hundred times before, but what does that bit of Latin say on the bottom your posts?
Jennifer
Gday...
Literal quote is - Merda tauris scientia vincit = excrement bulls science wins
So I guess one can 'translate/convert' that to today's everyday language (quote: "merda tauris" alludes to the output of the rear end of a male bovine!)
Just a thought Jim ... might flow better as tauris merda vincit sciential - Just a thought
Cheers - John
jimricho said
01:27 AM May 29, 2013
Latin grammar is somewhat different to modern English. It's 55 years since I did Latin at school and even then it wasn't my strongest subject so I could stand corrected by a Latin scholar.
It's usual in Latin for the verb to go at the end of the sentence. There are no pronouns in Latin but the verb changes its ending instead, this is called the conjugation of verbs. Whether a noun is the subject or object of a sentence is indicated by the the ending changing rather than its place in a sentence as in modern English. This is the called the declension of nouns. I suspect that I may have scientia wrong and perhaps it should be scientium (from scientia). Jeeze! I'm bloody rusty here so you'll have to excuse me if this is not 100% kosher!
Tauris is from taurus meaning bull (literally) however as it's used in the possessive case (eg "of the bull" or bull's) its spelling changes to tauris. Merda doesn't change and yes it's not the politest word for you know what. The French language word "merde" comes from this, as does Italian "merda". A direct translation to English would be represented by asterisks on this forum so you get the idea!
OK it loosely translates to "bulls**t beats knowledge"!
Please don't get the idea I'm some sort of language scholar as this post contains almost my entire knowledge of French and Latin!
Jim
PS: this post alone should justify the motto!
03_troopy said
02:36 AM May 29, 2013
We had another favourite back in the radio workshops in the 70's... "Stercus non potest poliri" Most of the equipment we worked on was very very ancient....
jimricho said
03:01 AM May 29, 2013
03_troopy wrote:
We had another favourite back in the radio workshops in the 70's... "Stercus non potest poliri" Most of the equipment we worked on was very very ancient....
You can't pick them up by the clean end either!
03_troopy said
03:11 AM May 29, 2013
lol, no, but you can roll them in glitter.. ;)
Wild1 said
03:30 PM May 30, 2013
Thanks for that lengthy explanation Jim - and I agree with the statement it makes. Now i'm left wondering what you and Troopy are referring to ..
Hi All, my 1200 watt inverter can't get the mixing blade in my 650 watt bread maker turning - it just sits there and groans. Why is this? Its the beginning of the mixing part not even using the heating element yet.
W1
Hi W1, is your inverter pure sine wave(psw) or modified sine wave(msw)?.Some appliances due to design and electronic control systems do not like msw,they will just buzz and vibrate on msw. cheers Peter.
Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to reply.
Its a modified sine wave inverter - I thought they could handle anything outside of computer chip electronics.
Jennifer
Hi W1 ,probably the best thing to do,is try the bread maker on another inverter (PSW)the next time you can access one .See what the results are,i think you will find it will work for a while until the batteries become discharged.(it will be a heavy load on batteries once the element kicks in ) cheers peter
-- Edited by 2foot6 on Monday 20th of May 2013 09:02:09 PM
Any one or all of the above may or may not be contributing to the problem.
Uses about 30Ah to bake a loaf and draws a max 40A (approx) at 12V.
Cheers,
Peter
That OKA must be a power station on wheels!
600W of solar and 460Ah of house batteries helps :)
Cheers,
Peter
Here are some service manuals that may give an insight into the workings of typical breadmaker:
http://www.jordansmanuals.com/Default.aspx?Brand=Sanyo&Product=BREADMAKER&Model=SBM-201
http://www.jordansmanuals.com/Default.aspx?Brand=Sanyo&Product=BREADMAKER&Model=SBM-20
The power consumption specs for the SBM-201 are 100W for the main motor and 470W for the heater. Therefore it does appear to be an issue with waveshape rather than available power.
-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 22nd of May 2013 08:54:14 AM
http://www.jordansmanuals.com/Default.aspx?Brand=Sanyo&Product=BREADMAKER&Model=SBM-201
http://www.jordansmanuals.com/Default.aspx?Brand=Sanyo&Product=BREADMAKER&Model=SBM-20
-- Edited by Sheba on Wednesday 22nd of May 2013 08:57:04 PM
Thanks Peter, Jim and Dorian for all your help, don't know if I could survive without my crusty home cooked bread!
Jennifer
It's not going to be easy! Last year I stayed for several weeks on an unpowered site at a campground that fortunately had power available in the laundry (I use the term loosely as there were no machines but several power points). I snuck the breadmaker over to the laundry at night, put it on timer, and collected it next morning.
Whatever you do don't inflict your tastebuds with that mushy crap that purports to be bread that's sold in supermarkets! Vietnamese owned bakeries often do nice bread (they were taught by the French).
Jim
PS: I use good quality breadmaking flour (quarter white, three quarters wholemeal) and no improver additives. I have used Lauke mixes and find these make nice bread.
How often do you do this? Every day? Every second day?
Best guess without seeing the setup is the power source. Either the battery or the leads to the invertor. If the cables aren't correctly sized then you probably won't generate the power required on the 240V side.
I bake up to two-three times a week and as this is (almost) my only source of bread I find the convenience of the breadmaker a big advantage and usually use the timer function by loading the machine at night and having fresh bread next morning. (no wonder I'm a bit overweight!)
Hi all, well Grams, I've done it both ways but once you get the hang of using a decent bread making machine you'll wonder why on earth you put yourself to so much trouble when they can turn out a very superior loaf. I always use Laucke bread mix and swear by it - so like jimricho, if I have to wait until I have access to a power point on site then so be it! Besides I have an intense dislike of putting my hands into dough, ughh.
Thanks Trotsky, for that little insight, I'm sure when the inverter was installed that I insisted that the wiring was the correct gauge for just this reason, but not knowing about such things, I don't know if it was done. I will definitely talk to my auto sparky about this when I see him later this week.
Jennifer
Hi Jim, I know you've been asked a hundred times before, but what does that bit of Latin say on the bottom your posts?
Jennifer
Hint: "merda tauris" alludes to the output of the rear end of a male bovine!
A 1200 watt inverter needs to be located very close to the battery. The short leads that come with these inverters is an indicator of this and in an optimal installation these would connect directly to the battery terminals. If using two batteries connected (in parallel) the interconnecting cables between the batteries should be as short as possible and very heavy gauge, like starter motor size gauge. One wire from from the inverter should be connected to the appropriate terminal of one battery and the other wire to the appropriate terminal of the other battery. This is to ensure the current is drawn evenly from both batteries.
It may be that if your existing inverter were re-installed this way that it may do the job however this could depend on the other factors mentioned in the thread.
I have a very good bread maker collecting dust in my cupboard. Yes it's easier to make the bread, but I hate the taste of bread made from these machines. I prefer the taste of proper bread made by hand.
Gday...
Literal quote is - Merda tauris scientia vincit = excrement bulls science wins
So I guess one can 'translate/convert' that to today's everyday language (quote: "merda tauris" alludes to the output of the rear end of a male bovine!)
Just a thought Jim ... might flow better as tauris merda vincit sciential - Just a thought
Cheers - John
It's usual in Latin for the verb to go at the end of the sentence. There are no pronouns in Latin but the verb changes its ending instead, this is called the conjugation of verbs. Whether a noun is the subject or object of a sentence is indicated by the the ending changing rather than its place in a sentence as in modern English. This is the called the declension of nouns. I suspect that I may have scientia wrong and perhaps it should be scientium (from scientia). Jeeze! I'm bloody rusty here so you'll have to excuse me if this is not 100% kosher!
Tauris is from taurus meaning bull (literally) however as it's used in the possessive case (eg "of the bull" or bull's) its spelling changes to tauris. Merda doesn't change and yes it's not the politest word for you know what. The French language word "merde" comes from this, as does Italian "merda". A direct translation to English would be represented by asterisks on this forum so you get the idea!
OK it loosely translates to "bulls**t beats knowledge"!
Please don't get the idea I'm some sort of language scholar as this post contains almost my entire knowledge of French and Latin!
Jim
PS: this post alone should justify the motto!
You can't pick them up by the clean end either!
Thanks for that lengthy explanation Jim - and I agree with the statement it makes. Now i'm left wondering what you and Troopy are referring to ..
Jennifer