May I throw my hat in the ring regarding "Free Camping"
Personally I would much prefer the word "Independant Camping"
Free camping gives the impression we are freeloaders who want something for nothing and give nothing in return.
Many GN's are on a tight or limited budget and need to look after their dollars and independant camping allows them to travel and see the sights and meet others on the road. Whatever is spent would benefit the community where they are and bring money into places that would normally miss the income.
Not using CP's stretches the budget and most are responsible independant campers. CP's have their place and are a welcome oasis when needed.
There are exceptions of course and some will give GN's a bad name. But most of us are not after something for nothing,we pay our way and do our bit for the places we pass through be it fuel or even a coffee or soft drink.
Not Freeloaders.
Nice to see some constructive comments and reading them gives other views and perspectives to consider.
Thanks
-- Edited by Yuglamron on Sunday 28th of April 2013 04:19:16 PM
gordon_adl said
12:57 PM Apr 28, 2013
I personally don't begrudge anyone making use of designated free camping facilities. I respect that some gn's are on a pension and or very limited budget. I think most people would think the same.
However, what annoys me and apparently quite a few others are when gn's do start asking for more. It has been mentioned many a time on here requests for wider streets, larger parking, parking closer to facilities and many other requests without regards to costings of these. It seems those councils who don't offer these services are labeled cancerous, greedy, thieves and many other such derogatory names. Why is there a need for such negativity towards councils who cannot afford to do this? Why are there threats of boycotts and other such nastiness?
There have been council members that have posted on here in response to some of these requests, clearly stating why some of these requests cannot be met and then chided for their honest answers. Some on here are very narrow and close minded and just refuse to see other points of views.
I've seen too many times on here a basic statement of 'i paid my taxes and now want what's owed to me'. I fully understand the common view on here that 'most gn's are fair people. However, it's much like the preacher preaching to the choir. As soon as someone poses an opposite view they are attacked via pm's, personal insults and or both.
I also firmly feel that more than just a few gn's overrate themselves as a collective group. Whilst this forum may have 5000+ members, there are very few that actually post on a regular basis. You're not as big as a group as you think you are, and thus overrating the amount of money thinking is spent in these places.
My point with that statement is that there seems to be a general consensus that gn's are spending a lot of money in these towns. I just don't see that there really are that many that do spend up. I've personally seen people group up for one very big shop in a neighbouring town just to save money. Whist I don't have an issue with people doing that, it does negate the spending of money in smaller local towns.
I live in a very caravan friendly town. Yet on a daily basis I see gn's, not overseas backpackers, staying in sites far longer than the council approved limits. It's not just a few, it's many. I'm going to presume most on here will not believe this or just think I'm being negative for these comments. I'm not, I'm only being honest. But because so many gn's refuse to have a honest look at themselves, they just refute these type of statements.
So, whilst the majority on this site probably do do the right thing, sadly this forum is only a very small sample of all gn's out there. I really think GN's need to clean up their own acts before going on such an offensive against councils and caravan parks.
Yuglamron, my post is a NOT response to you directly, nor is it meant as any type of a personal attack on you either. It is just a general response to GN's as a whole.
Oops, edited because I meant to type 'not a response' in my last sentence.
-- Edited by gordon_adl on Sunday 28th of April 2013 03:34:28 PM
Duh said
02:16 PM Apr 28, 2013
Apologies to johnq for reposting a link he put on another thread which I think is worth reading and is very informative and relevant to this subject;
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 28th of April 2013 02:17:45 PM
Cloak said
07:33 PM Apr 28, 2013
I agree, "free" is something different to Independent or self sufficient.
KFT said
08:41 PM Apr 28, 2013
Well said Gordon, I think you have covered the guts of the matter in a fair and balanced way.
We too prefer to "bush camp" because we prefer to be in the bush rather than a cp. There are times and places where you have to use a cp.
The term "free camping" is misleading and I would like to discourage it's use for that reason.
Interesting when you look at the numbers of registered RV's in Australia and compare that to the numbers of registered forum users. We(forumites) really are the minority crowd.
This and other forum's provide a service we caravanners, Motorhomers and campers can use for mutual benefit. To attack someone for expressing their view in a respectful way to me is counterproductive to the aim of any forum and must be dealt with by admins in a way that publicly discourages such behaviour.
just my 2 cents worth FWIW.
frank
gordon_adl said
09:27 PM Apr 28, 2013
I don't see how it's related to anything regarding this post? It's a very small minor web site that is just basically saying they want free camping? In fact if you actually go to their facebook page, they have all of 771 likes. That's nothing. Seemed to me they state facts but don't actually give verification of any of their facts. Anyone can write anything and say it's a fact.
Btw, slightly off topic, but on Q&A the other week, a statistic was noted that 80% of all quoted statistics are made up :)
Duh wrote:
Apologies to johnq for reposting a link he put on another thread which I think is worth reading and is very informative and relevant to this subject;
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 28th of April 2013 02:17:45 PM
Golddetectornomad said
10:05 PM Apr 28, 2013
This thread started out promising.....the use of Independant rather than Free.......I cant see why anyone would have a problem with that.... Every diatribe reply should at least have a point besides a general shot gun at anyone with the temerity to express an opinion.... I would have thought a forum was a meeting place for a cross section of ideas which we can personally accept or reject without having to take the poster to task for making their comment in the first place.... I fully support your right to make your ascertions Gordon and enjoy reading them, however it does not mean I must accept or agree with them.....what is the point of dissecting previous points made by posters if you dont offer some solution rather than inevitably fostering antagonism.... A cross section of these Forum members I guess are from those travelling on a pension thru to those who may have acquired wealth from whatever source....why cant everyone have an expectation and a valid point of view based on their own circumstances and perspective about life......why cant we read them and hopefully glean something to enrich all our lives......rather than "I told you so" type comments which achieve nothing...... If your sitting face to face at a camp fire would you tell folk their shortcomings based on your own personal position....or would you listen,smile and take another sip of Port and simply saviour the moment....which is what I am doing right now.......like at the nudist beach I used to go to when I still had a body to go with....everyone certainly is not created equal in life....but everyone is entitled to 'air' what they have, without rebuttal or condemnation.....or snide remarks...or even pulling out a magnifying glass on cold days.........I'm sure Councils are more than capable of looking after themselves and dont need our defence....live and let live......Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 28th of April 2013 10:08:07 PM
GaryKelly said
10:24 PM Apr 28, 2013
I agree... Gordon raises valid points. So does Yuglamron with "independent" camping. I like bush camping too. The word free has too many negative connotations. As to some GNs demanding more than their fair share, I was sitting in the dentist's waiting room the other day when there was a story on the telly about a B Double crash blocking the Pacific Hwy. One little old lady complained about trucks travelling too fast, and then another little old lady said, "Yes, they should have their own roads." Hehe. How much would it cost to build a second Pacific Hwy? Oh well... little old ladies can be forgiven, I suppose.
jules47 said
10:38 PM Apr 28, 2013
"This thread started out promising.....the use of Independant rather than Free.......I cant see why anyone would have a problem with that.... Every diatribe reply should at least have a point besides a general shot gun at anyone with the temerity to express an opinion.... I would have thought a forum was a meeting place for a cross section of ideas which we can personally accept or reject without having to take the poster to task for making their comment in the first place.... I fully support your right to make your ascertions Gordon and enjoy reading them, however it does not mean I must accept or agree with them.....what is the point of dissecting previous points made by posters if you dont offer some solution rather than inevitably fostering antagonism.... A cross section of these Forum members I guess are from those travelling on a pension thru to those who may have acquired wealth from whatever source....why cant everyone have an expectation and a valid point of view based on their own circumstances and perspective about life......why cant we read them and hopefully glean something to enrich all our lives......rather than "I told you so" type comments which achieve nothing...... If your sitting face to face at a camp fire would you tell folk their shortcomings based on your own personal position....or would you listen,smile and take another sip of Port and simply saviour the moment....which is what I am doing right now.......like at the nudist beach I used to go to when I still had a body to go with....everyone certainly is not created equal in life....but everyone is entitled to 'air' what they have, without rebuttal or condemnation.....or snide remarks...or even pulling out a magnifying glass on cold days.........I'm sure Councils are more than capable of looking after themselves and dont need our defence....live and let live......Hoo Roo."
Golddetectorman - I like your post - and agree a forum is a place for discussion and opinion. Unfortunately, there are some people with only negative opinions, no matter what the subject matter is, they seem to find a negative in it. I agree also that, if you disect someones opinion in a post - should you not come up with an alternative or solution - no point in saying anything if you do not have the answers.
And, yes, this forum/website has a small number of members - but during the "grey nomad season" in north QLD there will be at least 80,000 travellers, mostly gn's, moving through the area - they all have to buy food, fuel and other goods - sure a lot do stay in the "free" camps provided by some towns and fully appreciate what they offer. A lot stay in caravan parks as well. There is one small town in north QLD - Ravenshoe - the camp at the end of town can take 40 or 50 vehicles at any one time, it is usually full - there are donation boxes for showers and water - I would say that most people put some money in these boxes .
If each of these travellers spend only $10 a day (easy to do - paper, bread, milk), that is $400 or $500 a day going into an economy of a small town - on top of that is the income from people who aren't staying, but travelling through - there are two supermarkets, butcher, bakery cafes, hotels etc., a hardware store with a great range, and good prices.
Without the GN's on the road, the town would be in a sad state indeed.
This is just one of the many towns I personally have spent time in, and money, and a place I will go back to if in that area. As you say - live and let live - we are all different - some have a lot, some have very little -
-- Edited by jules47 on Sunday 28th of April 2013 10:44:22 PM
Onedodger said
11:48 PM Apr 28, 2013
We are one of those that love to bush camp, independent, free camp.
Our reasons are, We love to fish the outback rivers of Australia where there are no towns as such.
We are also aged pensioners and have a limited income so Bush camping for us saves some $s for other items.
We have found over many years that bush campers also make great companions around the campfire.
There are many small towns in Australia that have Caravan parks Camping areas that are very modest in their charges and we visit these where we can.
We also stock up on food at these places plus fuel etc and when we have done the sums the extra we pay at their shops comes out at very little extra cost for us.
Even camping on a river one has to still buy bread, milk, fuel and other necessities in the local town.
One such town is Isisford in sth west Qld where the camping fee is $1.00 per day at the local council chambers, and I should add that the town is looking up because of the Grey Nomads that come and visit.
We camp out of town at Omah waterhole and do a trip into town at least twice per week to stock up have a coffee or ale.
God it's good to be an Aussie.
brickies said
12:01 AM Apr 29, 2013
Onedodger you have discribed the true meaning of independent were you stay away from big city and enjoy the bush and buy in the small town , But more and more grey nomads want free camping has a right in big tourist town
Duh said
12:15 AM Apr 29, 2013
gordon_adl wrote:
I don't see how it's related to anything regarding this post? It's a very small minor web site that is just basically saying they want free camping? In fact if you actually go to their facebook page, they have all of 771 likes. That's nothing. Seemed to me they state facts but don't actually give verification of any of their facts. Anyone can write anything and say it's a fact. Duh wrote:
Apologies to johnq for reposting a link he put on another thread which I think is worth reading and is very informative and relevant to this subject;
The title of this thread is Free Camping, not Independent Camping, so to me free choice camps is indeed related. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, how many statements on here are said or alluded to be fact too ????
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 28th of April 2013 02:17:45 PM
johnq said
04:55 AM Apr 29, 2013
gordon_adl wrote:
I don't see how it's related to anything regarding this post? It's a very small minor web site that is just basically saying they want free camping? In fact if you actually go to their facebook page, they have all of 771 likes. That's nothing. Seemed to me they state facts but don't actually give verification of any of their facts. Anyone can write anything and say it's a fact.
Btw, slightly off topic, but on Q&A the other week, a statistic was noted that 80% of all quoted statistics are made up :)
Duh wrote:
Apologies to johnq for reposting a link he put on another thread which I think is worth reading and is very informative and relevant to this subject;
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 28th of April 2013 02:17:45 PM
Gordon,
You may have had a cursory look at the face page. I posted the site because it has links to a number of authoritative reports of interest. It is well worth scrolling down a bit to open the links. Thanks to Duh for posting it again.
I can't claim any credit for the site, but those responsible have done a service to all by listing and linking to industry, government and university reports that many of us never see otherwise.
There is often no need to reinvent the wheel in gathering data. A lot of solid information is already there because thoughtful university, industry and government researchers have been there first.
Cheers,
johnq
gordon_adl said
05:04 AM Apr 29, 2013
I did look at it but to be fair, only for about 10 minutes. I found it to be very inflamative. Perhaps I should reread but I saw a statement where it suggests the average RV spends 600 a week in these small towns. To me, that doesn't seem like a GN, more like a cashed up family on extended holidays. As such, I didn't really relate it to the gn's needs for free camping.
Just to reitirate, I'm all for free camping and also for good constructive dialogue in regards to obtaining more free camp sites. What I don't like is inflamitive remarks, threats, boycotts and insulting name calling towards caravon parks. I think it actually
goes against furthering the agenda of opening up more free camps. People just don't respond to threats I find. Open and constructive dialogue is the way to obtain positive results.
Below is from their home page...
'The very same industries that got rich on the back of the traveller - the caravan parks together with the caravan and motorhome manufacturers - are funding a nationwide campaign to take away our right to choose where and when we can camp. They are using the profits from the sales of RVs and campsite rentalstous to wage war on us.
One of the traditional freedoms enjoyed in Australia has been the right to pack up and head off into the wide blue yonder, pitch camp and watch the stars. Many of us RVers can remember the "old days" when our families camped in tents, delighting in the wide open spaces that Australia has to offer.
Later, many families graduated to a caravan with more mod cons, but they still appreciated the feeling of adventure. They holidayed in waterfront caravan parks and in outback bush camps; they travelled this vast land drawing pleasure from the great traditions of Aussie mateship and the warm welcome extended to travellers - attributes which still make travel in Australia a pleasure for residents and tourists alike. And, best of all, many of us developed lifelong friendships with the new mates we met on the road.
In the 21st century, our self-contained homes on wheels have kitchens, toilet/showers and wireless broadband - in caravans, campervans, motorhomes, fifth-wheelers and camper trailers. We contain our wastewater and endeavour to "Leave No Trace". The spirit of adventure we enjoyed in the '40s, '50s and '60s is the same, though updated with modern furnishings and technology.
We don't expect to camp in the middle of the MCG, in the main street of every town or along the tidelines of beaches, but travellers in Australia should not be forced by business or legislated by protectionist government policies into spending every night in a caravan park - which is the stated aim of the industry association campaign. They are using highly paid lobbyists to approach government at all levels in an attempt to close down all freedom camping sites, bush camps and showgrounds and/or impose restrictions that make their use impracticable. They are using the profits from the sales of RVs and campsite rentals TO us to wage war ON us.
Yet another issue is the impact on the economies of hundreds of small towns where RVers' expenditure contributes to the viability of small businesses. The well-known Balfour Consulting statistic is an average $600 pw per RV, resulting in a significant effect on the economy of a town with a nearby campsite or rest area.
We, the recreational vehicle (RV) travel public of Australia - currently numbering over 400,000 RVs on the road or approx 700,000 people - are an ever-increasing voting force. (Note: the caravan park industry association's own statistics show continued strong profit growth of 8-10% p.a. each year of the past 10 years.)
If we want to preserve our freedom to choose where and when we camp we must make our voices heard - and heard by every business owner in the RV trade, every local councillor, every state politician and every federal Member of Parliament.'
johnq wrote:
Gordon,
You may have had a cursory look at the face page. I posted the site because it has links to a number of authoritative reports of interest. It is well worth scrolling down a bit to open the links. Thanks to Duh for posting it again.
I can't claim any credit for the site, but those responsible have done a service to all by listing and linking to industry, government and university reports that many of us never see otherwise.
There is often no need to reinvent the wheel in gathering data. A lot of solid information is already there because thoughtful university, industry and government researchers have been there first.
Cheers,
johnq
gordon_adl said
05:22 AM Apr 29, 2013
I'm sorry you feel I'm fostering antagonism. I'm trying to offer solutions by stating that constructive conversation and dialogue is what is needed, not name calling, threats and boycotts. To me, these groups that act that way are only going to get councils on the defensive...and as such a poor result in obtaining more free camping sites. However every time I state the above intentions, I get met with ridicule. To the best of my memory, I have not resorted to name calling, expressing lies and and threats via PM's.
Golddetectornomad wrote:
I fully support your right to make your ascertions Gordon and enjoy reading them, however it does not mean I must accept or agree with them.....what is the point of dissecting previous points made by posters if you dont offer some solution rather than inevitably fostering antagonism....
neilnruth said
05:22 AM Apr 29, 2013
Yuglamron - agree with you - Independent camping would be a better term. I think that's what your original post was about.
barrie said
06:11 AM Apr 29, 2013
I gave up reading this thread as the plot has been lost
rockylizard said
11:32 AM Apr 29, 2013
msg wrote:
When I am travelling, I usually stop about 4-5 o,clock for the night. I am tired after a long day. I may make a quick meal and a cuppa and usually will watch TV and then go to sleep. I quite often don't even leave the van.
I get up and leave early the following morning. I use no facilities except to park there. I find for me it is not good value for the asking price of $35.
I prefer to stop along the road somewhere where it will not cost me anything. Can some CP operator tell me why I should stop at a CP?
Longer term stopovers where I wish to have a look at the area use a bit of power for the heating and fill up with water, I would use a CP although if you look at it from a rental space point of view, I could probably rent a unit for a week for the same cost. [agree with all of the above 100% - except for the 'roadside rest area' sleeping, our lifestyles are very similiar]
What narks me is value for money and the fact that CP's are hell bent on forcing people into their parks by lobbying government to close off all choice so that they can make a dollar. [and you need to also acknowledge the other side of the emotive coin - so called "Traveller Organisations" (particularly CMCA) have declared ongoing campaigns badgering the same CPs and Shires to provide extensive free rest stops within, or near, towns or they will include the town/region on their list called "Avoid these unfriendly places". No wonder "travelling GNs" (or "travelling bank accounts" as CMCA call us) are often an unwelcome visitor to a lot of east coast towns. My answer is to continue as a camper and stay away from large towns - if you want to visit a large town for shopping or sightseeing activities etc then go to a van park, pay the going tariff and get on with life - it is much too short to get ya knickers in a twist over this issue]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 29th of April 2013 11:35:43 AM
Santa said
12:19 PM Apr 29, 2013
wasn_me wrote:
I think it's pathetic that one person had to resort to a belittleing, bullying post, for who knows what purpose. There was no contribution to the topic, just an attack on you.I normally skip over this persons posts as they usually full of twaddle. Unfurtunatly this morning his attack stood out.
Cheers Pete
Hmmm, I don't see any belittling, bullying or attacking posts, mind you this one came close.
What I see in the main is adult debate on what can be quite a polarising subject, those that wan't/expect it all, preferably at no charge and those who are happy to gratefully accept what is available, count me in the latter group.
-- Edited by Santa on Monday 29th of April 2013 12:23:36 PM
sandsmere said
02:14 PM Apr 29, 2013
The moment " free camping " is mentioned on sites like this one , the same tired old statements
come out from the same people over and over again .
The OP was meant to start a discussion on whether we should use Free camping or independent camping .
That was soon changed back to the usual old argument . . Some people don't think very far ahead .
Anyway the good bit was the article Tonyq originally came up with , and Duh brought up . Some very good stuff in that . Thanks guys .
Lorries said
03:33 PM Apr 29, 2013
I am one of the three who set up Free Choice Camping. We did so to try to gather all information that was out there (positive and negative) and have it all in one place so that should people wish to research a particular town or area if issues come up (as they do) then it was readily accessible. What is on our site is available to anyone if they care to search the web for the articles. All we have done is put them all in one place. We also advocate that it is our choice where we can camp (legally of course) be it a caravan park or a sanctiond campsite somewhere. We do not believe that it is right that it is legislated that the only place we can camp is a caravan park - we want the choice and that is what our site is about http://www.freechoicecamps.com.au/index.html. Due to demand we then set up a faceook page https://www.facebook.com/Freechoicecamping. Free choice camps website commenced late January 2013 and the Facebook page was started in February 2013 so they have not been going very long to get the following we already have.
To get back to the OP we like to call it free choice camping.
Lorraine
Santa said
05:43 PM Apr 29, 2013
Freedom camping, independant camping, free choice camping, free camping, never heard any of these terms used until forums like this made me aware that some forum members are sensitive to the fact that they may be percieved as free loaders or cheapskates, and to be honest some forum posters certainly give the impression that they would hang onto a 20 cent piece so tight that the Queens head would scream.
I have been a traveller and a camper for most of my life and never saw myself as anything other than a (camper)
Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this, it's all down to semantics, I guess if it makes you feel better to claim that you freedom, free choice or independant camp then go for it, people love to complicate things, I will continue to simply camp for the night, and when I leave the following morning leave no trace.
NeilandRaine said
06:00 PM Apr 29, 2013
gordon_adl wrote:
I personally don't begrudge anyone making use of designated free camping facilities. I respect that some gn's are on a pension and or very limited budget. I think most people would think the same.
However, what annoys me and apparently quite a few others are when gn's do start asking for more. It has been mentioned many a time on here requests for wider streets, larger parking, parking closer to facilities and many other requests without regards to costings of these. It seems those councils who don't offer these services are labeled cancerous, greedy, thieves and many other such derogatory names. Why is there a need for such negativity towards councils who cannot afford to do this? Why are there threats of boycotts and other such nastiness?
There have been council members that have posted on here in response to some of these requests, clearly stating why some of these requests cannot be met and then chided for their honest answers. Some on here are very narrow and close minded and just refuse to see other points of views.
I've seen too many times on here a basic statement of 'i paid my taxes and now want what's owed to me'. I fully understand the common view on here that 'most gn's are fair people. However, it's much like the preacher preaching to the choir. As soon as someone poses an opposite view they are attacked via pm's, personal insults and or both.
I also firmly feel that more than just a few gn's overrate themselves as a collective group. Whilst this forum may have 5000+ members, there are very few that actually post on a regular basis. You're not as big as a group as you think you are, and thus overrating the amount of money thinking is spent in these places.
My point with that statement is that there seems to be a general consensus that gn's are spending a lot of money in these towns. I just don't see that there really are that many that do spend up. I've personally seen people group up for one very big shop in a neighbouring town just to save money. Whist I don't have an issue with people doing that, it does negate the spending of money in smaller local towns.
I live in a very caravan friendly town. Yet on a daily basis I see gn's, not overseas backpackers, staying in sites far longer than the council approved limits. It's not just a few, it's many. I'm going to presume most on here will not believe this or just think I'm being negative for these comments. I'm not, I'm only being honest. But because so many gn's refuse to have a honest look at themselves, they just refute these type of statements.
So, whilst the majority on this site probably do do the right thing, sadly this forum is only a very small sample of all gn's out there. I really think GN's need to clean up their own acts before going on such an offensive against councils and caravan parks.
Yuglamron, my post is a NOT response to you directly, nor is it meant as any type of a personal attack on you either. It is just a general response to GN's as a whole.
Oops, edited because I meant to type 'not a response' in my last sentence.
-- Edited by gordon_adl on Sunday 28th of April 2013 03:34:28 PM
Agree totaly
In the words of Kris Kristoffesson
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose, And nothin' ain't worth nothin' but it's free,
If you want to free camp expect nothing and you won't be dissapointed
rockylizard said
06:14 PM Apr 29, 2013
Santa wrote:
Freedom camping, independant camping, free choice camping, free camping, never heard any of these terms used until forums like this made me aware that some forum members are sensitive to the fact that they may be percieved as free loaders or cheapskates, and to be honest some forum posters certainly give the impression that they would hang onto a 20 cent piece so tight that the Queens head would scream.
I have been a traveller and a camper for most of my life and never saw myself as anything other than a (camper)
Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this, it's all down to semantics, I guess if it makes you feel better to claim that you freedom, free choice or independant camp then go for it, people love to complicate things, I will continue to simply camp for the night, and when I leave the following morning leave no trace.
Gday...
I'm with you Santa ... however, the problem seems to stem not so much from 'campers' (as you and I seem to define the term) but from those who travel the highways, wanna stop near, or right in, towns overnight (or longer) and then expect all mod cons for free and leaving behind 'evidence' of their stay.
I have held off from commenting on this thread (as it is really only a continuation of the myriad of similar emotive posts) but gladly quote you "Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this, it's all down to semantics, I guess if it makes you feel better to claim that you freedom, free choice or independant camp then go for it"
Cheers and happy camping wherever ya park ya tent/camper/van/5th wheeler/slide-on/swag or sleeping bag
Cheers - John
herbie said
06:18 PM Apr 29, 2013
Why is it that the word Free Camping sends some people into a state of hysteria, If you are not paying or if you are paying some small token to camp in a certain spot ,then get used to the word 'FREE' camping as that is what it is for the person useing it.. It is Free to camp through the generosity of that particular shire/ council in that area...And that generosity is payed for by the rate payers who live in that area.So in the end someone is paying for it , just not you who is useing that FREE spot.
msg said
06:20 PM Apr 29, 2013
When I am travelling, I usually stop about 4-5 o,clock for the night. I am tired after a long day. I may make a quick meal and a cuppa and usually will watch TV and then go to sleep. I quite often don't even leave the van.
I get up and leave early the following morning. I use no facilities except to park there. I find for me it is not good value for the asking price of $35.
I prefer to stop along the road somewhere where it will not cost me anything. Can some CP operator tell me why I should stop at a CP?
Longer term stopovers where I wish to have a look at the area use a bit of power for the heating and fill up with water, I would use a CP although if you look at it from a rental space point of view, I could probably rent a unit for a week for the same cost.
What narks me is value for money and the fact that CP's are hell bent on forcing people into their parks by lobbying government to close off all choice so that they can make a dollar.
gordon_adl said
06:23 PM Apr 29, 2013
I'd just like to thank those of you have sent me personal messages of support. I can fully understand why some hesitate to support in public due to fear of personal attacks.
Santa said
06:29 PM Apr 29, 2013
rockylizard wrote:
but from those who travel the highways, wanna stop near, or right in, towns overnight (or longer) and then expect all mod cons for free and leaving behind 'evidence' of their stay.
Cheers - John
One of my pet peeves are the people who expect councils to provide no cost facilities within city or township area's, it's simply not a realistic expectation.
There was a post a while back complaining that a council employee moved them on for camping in the Adelaide East Park Lands, seriously, this is 1 km from the Adelaide CBD, anyone who cant understand that this is not an appropriate place to camp has some issues that need addressing.
msg said
06:39 PM Apr 29, 2013
I guess I must have some issues then. What is wrong with using a car space (that is already there and quite legal to park a car? )apart from not being a safe place?
Santa said
06:42 PM Apr 29, 2013
msg wrote:
I get up and leave early the following morning. I use no facilities except to park there. I find for me it is not good value for the asking price of $35.
Most of us would take advantage of the shower, toilet, water, dump point facilities and a chance to top up batteries.
May I throw my hat in the ring regarding "Free Camping"
Personally I would much prefer the word "Independant Camping"
Free camping gives the impression we are freeloaders who want something for nothing and give nothing in return.
Many GN's are on a tight or limited budget and need to look after their dollars and independant camping allows them to travel and see the sights and meet others on the road. Whatever is spent would benefit the community where they are and bring money into places that would normally miss the income.
Not using CP's stretches the budget and most are responsible independant campers. CP's have their place and are a welcome oasis when needed.
There are exceptions of course and some will give GN's a bad name. But most of us are not after something for nothing,we pay our way and do our bit for the places we pass through be it fuel or even a coffee or soft drink.
Not Freeloaders.
Nice to see some constructive comments and reading them gives other views and perspectives to consider.
Thanks
-- Edited by Yuglamron on Sunday 28th of April 2013 04:19:16 PM
I personally don't begrudge anyone making use of designated free camping facilities. I respect that some gn's are on a pension and or very limited budget. I think most people would think the same.
However, what annoys me and apparently quite a few others are when gn's do start asking for more. It has been mentioned many a time on here requests for wider streets, larger parking, parking closer to facilities and many other requests without regards to costings of these. It seems those councils who don't offer these services are labeled cancerous, greedy, thieves and many other such derogatory names. Why is there a need for such negativity towards councils who cannot afford to do this? Why are there threats of boycotts and other such nastiness?
There have been council members that have posted on here in response to some of these requests, clearly stating why some of these requests cannot be met and then chided for their honest answers. Some on here are very narrow and close minded and just refuse to see other points of views.
I've seen too many times on here a basic statement of 'i paid my taxes and now want what's owed to me'. I fully understand the common view on here that 'most gn's are fair people. However, it's much like the preacher preaching to the choir. As soon as someone poses an opposite view they are attacked via pm's, personal insults and or both.
I also firmly feel that more than just a few gn's overrate themselves as a collective group. Whilst this forum may have 5000+ members, there are very few that actually post on a regular basis. You're not as big as a group as you think you are, and thus overrating the amount of money thinking is spent in these places.
My point with that statement is that there seems to be a general consensus that gn's are spending a lot of money in these towns. I just don't see that there really are that many that do spend up. I've personally seen people group up for one very big shop in a neighbouring town just to save money. Whist I don't have an issue with people doing that, it does negate the spending of money in smaller local towns.
I live in a very caravan friendly town. Yet on a daily basis I see gn's, not overseas backpackers, staying in sites far longer than the council approved limits. It's not just a few, it's many. I'm going to presume most on here will not believe this or just think I'm being negative for these comments. I'm not, I'm only being honest. But because so many gn's refuse to have a honest look at themselves, they just refute these type of statements.
So, whilst the majority on this site probably do do the right thing, sadly this forum is only a very small sample of all gn's out there. I really think GN's need to clean up their own acts before going on such an offensive against councils and caravan parks.
Yuglamron, my post is a NOT response to you directly, nor is it meant as any type of a personal attack on you either. It is just a general response to GN's as a whole.
Oops, edited because I meant to type 'not a response' in my last sentence.
-- Edited by gordon_adl on Sunday 28th of April 2013 03:34:28 PM
Apologies to johnq for reposting a link he put on another thread which I think is worth reading and is very informative and relevant to this subject;
http://www.freechoicecamps.com.au/studiesstats.html
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 28th of April 2013 02:17:45 PM
We too prefer to "bush camp" because we prefer to be in the bush rather than a cp. There are times and places where you have to use a cp.
The term "free camping" is misleading and I would like to discourage it's use for that reason.
Interesting when you look at the numbers of registered RV's in Australia and compare that to the numbers of registered forum users. We(forumites) really are the minority crowd.
This and other forum's provide a service we caravanners, Motorhomers and campers can use for mutual benefit. To attack someone for expressing their view in a respectful way to me is counterproductive to the aim of any forum and must be dealt with by admins in a way that publicly discourages such behaviour.
just my 2 cents worth FWIW.
frank
This thread started out promising.....the use of Independant rather than Free.......I cant see why anyone would have a problem with that....
Every diatribe reply should at least have a point besides a general shot gun at anyone with the temerity to express an opinion....
I would have thought a forum was a meeting place for a cross section of ideas which we can personally accept or reject without having to take the poster to task for making their comment in the first place....
I fully support your right to make your ascertions Gordon and enjoy reading them, however it does not mean I must accept or agree with them.....what is the point of dissecting previous points made by posters if you dont offer some solution rather than inevitably fostering antagonism....
A cross section of these Forum members I guess are from those travelling on a pension thru to those who may have acquired wealth from whatever source....why cant everyone have an expectation and a valid point of view based on their own circumstances and perspective about life......why cant we read them and hopefully glean something to enrich all our lives......rather than "I told you so" type comments which achieve nothing......
If your sitting face to face at a camp fire would you tell folk their shortcomings based on your own personal position....or would you listen,smile and take another sip of Port and simply saviour the moment....which is what I am doing right now.......like at the nudist beach I used to go to when I still had a body to go with....everyone certainly is not created equal in life....but everyone is entitled to 'air' what they have, without rebuttal or condemnation.....or snide remarks...or even pulling out a magnifying glass on cold days.........I'm sure Councils are more than capable of looking after themselves and dont need our defence....live and let live......Hoo Roo.
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Sunday 28th of April 2013 10:08:07 PM
"."
Golddetectorman - I like your post - and agree a forum is a place for discussion and opinion. Unfortunately, there are some people with only negative opinions, no matter what the subject matter is, they seem to find a negative in it. I agree also that, if you disect someones opinion in a post - should you not come up with an alternative or solution - no point in saying anything if you do not have the answers.
And, yes, this forum/website has a small number of members - but during the "grey nomad season" in north QLD there will be at least 80,000 travellers, mostly gn's, moving through the area - they all have to buy food, fuel and other goods - sure a lot do stay in the "free" camps provided by some towns and fully appreciate what they offer. A lot stay in caravan parks as well. There is one small town in north QLD - Ravenshoe - the camp at the end of town can take 40 or 50 vehicles at any one time, it is usually full - there are donation boxes for showers and water - I would say that most people put some money in these boxes .
If each of these travellers spend only $10 a day (easy to do - paper, bread, milk), that is $400 or $500 a day going into an economy of a small town - on top of that is the income from people who aren't staying, but travelling through - there are two supermarkets, butcher, bakery cafes, hotels etc., a hardware store with a great range, and good prices.
Without the GN's on the road, the town would be in a sad state indeed.
This is just one of the many towns I personally have spent time in, and money, and a place I will go back to if in that area.
As you say - live and let live - we are all different - some have a lot, some have very little -
-- Edited by jules47 on Sunday 28th of April 2013 10:44:22 PM
We are one of those that love to bush camp, independent, free camp.
Our reasons are, We love to fish the outback rivers of Australia where there are no towns as such.
We are also aged pensioners and have a limited income so Bush camping for us saves some $s for other items.
We have found over many years that bush campers also make great companions around the campfire.
There are many small towns in Australia that have Caravan parks Camping areas that are very modest in their charges and we visit these where we can.
We also stock up on food at these places plus fuel etc and when we have done the sums the extra we pay at their shops comes out at very little extra cost for us.
Even camping on a river one has to still buy bread, milk, fuel and other necessities in the local town.
One such town is Isisford in sth west Qld where the camping fee is $1.00 per day at the local council chambers, and I should add that the town is looking up because of the Grey Nomads that come and visit.
We camp out of town at Omah waterhole and do a trip into town at least twice per week to stock up have a coffee or ale.
God it's good to be an Aussie.
Apologies to johnq for reposting a link he put on another thread which I think is worth reading and is very informative and relevant to this subject;
http://www.freechoicecamps.com.au/studiesstats.html
The title of this thread is Free Camping, not Independent Camping, so to me free choice camps is indeed related. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, how many statements on here are said or alluded to be fact too ????
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 28th of April 2013 02:17:45 PM
Gordon,
You may have had a cursory look at the face page. I posted the site because it has links to a number of authoritative reports of interest. It is well worth scrolling down a bit to open the links. Thanks to Duh for posting it again.
I can't claim any credit for the site, but those responsible have done a service to all by listing and linking to industry, government and university reports that many of us never see otherwise.
There is often no need to reinvent the wheel in gathering data. A lot of solid information is already there because thoughtful university, industry and government researchers have been there first.
Cheers,
johnq
One of the traditional freedoms enjoyed in Australia has been the right to pack up and head off into the wide blue yonder, pitch camp and watch the stars. Many of us RVers can remember the "old days" when our families camped in tents, delighting in the wide open spaces that Australia has to offer.
Later, many families graduated to a caravan with more mod cons, but they still appreciated the feeling of adventure. They holidayed in waterfront caravan parks and in outback bush camps; they travelled this vast land drawing pleasure from the great traditions of Aussie mateship and the warm welcome extended to travellers - attributes which still make travel in Australia a pleasure for residents and tourists alike. And, best of all, many of us developed lifelong friendships with the new mates we met on the road.
In the 21st century, our self-contained homes on wheels have kitchens, toilet/showers and wireless broadband - in caravans, campervans, motorhomes, fifth-wheelers and camper trailers. We contain our wastewater and endeavour to "Leave No Trace". The spirit of adventure we enjoyed in the '40s, '50s and '60s is the same, though updated with modern furnishings and technology.
We don't expect to camp in the middle of the MCG, in the main street of every town or along the tidelines of beaches, but travellers in Australia should not be forced by business or legislated by protectionist government policies into spending every night in a caravan park - which is the stated aim of the industry association campaign. They are using highly paid lobbyists to approach government at all levels in an attempt to close down all freedom camping sites, bush camps and showgrounds and/or impose restrictions that make their use impracticable. They are using the profits from the sales of RVs and campsite rentals TO us to wage war ON us.
Yet another issue is the impact on the economies of hundreds of small towns where RVers' expenditure contributes to the viability of small businesses. The well-known Balfour Consulting statistic is an average $600 pw per RV, resulting in a significant effect on the economy of a town with a nearby campsite or rest area.
We, the recreational vehicle (RV) travel public of Australia - currently numbering over 400,000 RVs on the road or approx 700,000 people - are an ever-increasing voting force. (Note: the caravan park industry association's own statistics show continued strong profit growth of 8-10% p.a. each year of the past 10 years.)
If we want to preserve our freedom to choose where and when we camp we must make our voices heard - and heard by every business owner in the RV trade, every local councillor, every state politician and every federal Member of Parliament.'
msg wrote:
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 29th of April 2013 11:35:43 AM
Hmmm, I don't see any belittling, bullying or attacking posts, mind you this one came close.
What I see in the main is adult debate on what can be quite a polarising subject, those that wan't/expect it all, preferably at no charge and those who are happy to gratefully accept what is available, count me in the latter group.
-- Edited by Santa on Monday 29th of April 2013 12:23:36 PM
The moment " free camping " is mentioned on sites like this one , the same tired old statements
come out from the same people over and over again .
The OP was meant to start a discussion on whether we should use Free camping or independent camping .
That was soon changed back to the usual old argument .
. Some people don't think very far ahead .
Anyway the good bit was the article Tonyq originally came up with , and Duh brought up . Some very good stuff in that . Thanks guys .
I am one of the three who set up Free Choice Camping. We did so to try to gather all information that was out there (positive and negative) and have it all in one place so that should people wish to research a particular town or area if issues come up (as they do) then it was readily accessible. What is on our site is available to anyone if they care to search the web for the articles. All we have done is put them all in one place. We also advocate that it is our choice where we can camp (legally of course) be it a caravan park or a sanctiond campsite somewhere. We do not believe that it is right that it is legislated that the only place we can camp is a caravan park - we want the choice and that is what our site is about http://www.freechoicecamps.com.au/index.html. Due to demand we then set up a faceook page https://www.facebook.com/Freechoicecamping. Free choice camps website commenced late January 2013 and the Facebook page was started in February 2013 so they have not been going very long to get the following we already have.
To get back to the OP we like to call it free choice camping.
Lorraine
Freedom camping, independant camping, free choice camping, free camping, never heard any of these terms used until forums like this made me aware that some forum members are sensitive to the fact that they may be percieved as free loaders or cheapskates, and to be honest some forum posters certainly give the impression that they would hang onto a 20 cent piece so tight that the Queens head would scream.
I have been a traveller and a camper for most of my life and never saw myself as anything other than a (camper)
Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this, it's all down to semantics, I guess if it makes you feel better to claim that you freedom, free choice or independant camp then go for it, people love to complicate things, I will continue to simply camp for the night, and when I leave the following morning leave no trace.
Agree totaly
In the words of Kris Kristoffesson
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose,
And nothin' ain't worth nothin' but it's free,
If you want to free camp expect nothing and you won't be dissapointed
Gday...
I'm with you Santa ... however, the problem seems to stem not so much from 'campers' (as you and I seem to define the term) but from those who travel the highways, wanna stop near, or right in, towns overnight (or longer) and then expect all mod cons for free and leaving behind 'evidence' of their stay.
I have held off from commenting on this thread (as it is really only a continuation of the myriad of similar emotive posts) but gladly quote you "Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to this, it's all down to semantics, I guess if it makes you feel better to claim that you freedom, free choice or independant camp then go for it"
Cheers and happy camping wherever ya park ya tent/camper/van/5th wheeler/slide-on/swag or sleeping bag
Cheers - John
Why is it that the word Free Camping sends some people into a state of hysteria, If you are not paying or if you are paying some small token to camp in a certain spot ,then get used to the word 'FREE' camping as that is what it is for the person useing it.. It is Free to camp through the generosity of that particular shire/ council in that area...And that generosity is payed for by the rate payers who live in that area.So in the end someone is paying for it , just not you who is useing that FREE spot.
I get up and leave early the following morning. I use no facilities except to park there. I find for me it is not good value for the asking price of $35.
I prefer to stop along the road somewhere where it will not cost me anything. Can some CP operator tell me why I should stop at a CP?
Longer term stopovers where I wish to have a look at the area use a bit of power for the heating and fill up with water, I would use a CP although if you look at it from a rental space point of view, I could probably rent a unit for a week for the same cost.
What narks me is value for money and the fact that CP's are hell bent on forcing people into their parks by lobbying government to close off all choice so that they can make a dollar.
One of my pet peeves are the people who expect councils to provide no cost facilities within city or township area's, it's simply not a realistic expectation.
There was a post a while back complaining that a council employee moved them on for camping in the Adelaide East Park Lands, seriously, this is 1 km from the Adelaide CBD, anyone who cant understand that this is not an appropriate place to camp has some issues that need addressing.
Most of us would take advantage of the shower, toilet, water, dump point facilities and a chance to top up batteries.